New to loading for a .45ACP I recently had some ammunition that put "keyholes", as I understand their called, in the target; what causes that?

In almost 30 years this is the first time I'm loading for an automatic weapon so I'm open to any tips or suggestions you guys may have to offer.

I have a Kimber Custom 2 and a Springfield Trophy Match, both .45 ACP. My intention is competition shooting, both target and practical shooting, and personal defense.

an non stabilized bullet

Well that really doesn’t answer my question; what causes keyholeing? I already kind of figured the bullet wasn’t flying right.

Hey W, Actually, M7LSS' answer is right on the nose. And you are correct that didn't give you an answer that you can use to correct the issue.

You will need to detail the actual Load you are trying to make work, so folks will have a chance at helping you.

Be sure to include the "measured Diameter"(use a set of 0.001" capable Calipers) of the Bullets you are trying to use.

The bullet is a .452 200gr lswc. CCI 300 Primer, 5.2gr Unique. Gun, Kimber Custom 2, 5" barrel target fired at 50'.

Thank you...

Simply put, your bullet is tumbling in flight and hitting the target sideways. Could be a few causes.

under powered load. need 5.9 to 6.7 grs max of unique.
5" barrel and 1:16 twist. looses stability about 10 th 15 feet from the muzzle with that light of a load.
Dave

I agree it sounds like the load is way under powered. By at least a grain or more.

Thanks Dave and Paul....Damn, those sure were comfortable to shoot. The good news was it only took a couple of clips of those to tear a big hole in the target; talk about all the bullets going through one hole!!

I'll make adjustments and report back.

if you have penetration with that load. can you imagin what a man stopper it would be .. bet it would bounce round like a pin ball.

Yea but the loads I am loading appear as though they may have bounced off the skin and if I was lucky stub their toe real bad. I've got to quit being so cheap with the powder. LOL

Actually that wasn’t my goal; I had a S&W Model 29, 44 mag. years back that was a real good shooter and for shooting bowling pins, I would load a real light load and could drop the pins in 5.5 seconds and go down range and pick up my bullets that were almost in perfect condition on the floor in front of the table. So I was seeing if a light load worked good in this gun and unless I want to be the first one to shred a target to nothing, this load stinks. It was actually a little funny to watch, those bullets must have been tumbling as fast as they were supposed to be spinning since several shots would tear more than one piece of paper from the target. It only took 10 shots to tear a good fourth of the target away.

Wboggs
A suggestion, if you can get a bullet sized larger, like .453.
Check to see how far out or how shallow the bullet is seated, relative to the mag. Adjust the seating to suit the mag.
A question.
Is the bullet carry most of it'd weight in the nose or in the barrel/base of the bullet?
Jim

I just found a new source for bullets so I'll be checking on diameter (eat your heart out, nice hard alloy lead for 35.00/1,000; being a member of a club has its benefits). These bullets have most of the weight in the base of the bullet. And seating is a subject that came up on another forum that I will be addressing; I've probably been seating them a little too deep.

Hey W, The other folks might be correct about the amount of Powder, but the Speer #12 shows 5.4gr of Unique as MAX. But the old Hornady #3 shows it as their Starting Load with 6.9gr as MAX.

That being the situation, if it were me, ArkyPete was thinking what I'd been wondering - perhaps a slightly larger Lead Bullet. And if you can get them for $35/k, that is great. I love to hear about folks getting great deals on Reloading Components.
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Nearly forgot, if your Barrel has a Tapered Loading Ramp, it should feed really well. You may already do this, but:
1. I first verify the Trim Length by setting an Empty Case in the end of the Barrel(removed from the Pistol) and give it a good eyeballing.
2. I Seat a Bullet just deep enough that it does not cause the Case to be "higher" in the Chamber. Just short of Kissing-the-Lands.
3. Verify that Seating Depth does not cause a Feed Problem before I load a bunch of them. Just load 3 and see if they feed from the Magazine.
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Best of luck to you. Great deal on the Lead!

quote:

Hey W, The other folks might be correct about the amount of Powder, but the Speer #12 shows 5.4gr of Unique as MAX. But the old Hornady #3 shows it as their Starting Load with 6.9gr as MAX.

HC;Speer offers swagged bullet instead of cast. The swagged ones normally are soft lead and strip in the rifleing if driven too hard.

Personally I prefer a faster powder in the acp with light lead bullets. My favotie loads are a Penn 200 gr LSWC with 4.8 gr of Titegroup or 5.0 gr of VV n320 if I can find it around here.
The faster powder helps obturate the bullet with slightly higher pressures, which may be part of the key hole problem if the bullet base isn`t expanding well and the rifleing isn`t getting a good grip on it. You also have to watch going too low with your charge or risk haveing feed and ejection failures unless you play with springs in a 1911.
Then too, there is always a risk of sticking a bullet..............

I have got keyholes in my target when:

1) The twist rate is too slow, like a .935" long 75 gr Vmax from a 1 in 14" twist 6mm barrel.

2) The rifllings are not getting traction, like in my Enfield No4 mk I 303 Brit with .318" grooves shooting .309" bullets in surplus 303 Brit ammo.

All good suggestions and as far as the powder load, I do plan on approaching the higher loads carefully. I know with the hard lead alloy used in the bullets I will be buying I can easily approach jacketed loads so some of the higher ones here aren’t that high after all. But I will still be cautions.

This is embarrassing but I have a good picture of the grip the rifling has on the bullets as when loading some for the first time on a new progressive, one slipped by with just a primer in it. Amazing how far a bullet travels in a barrel with just a primer. So after carefully tapping it out, I had a clear picture of lands and groves.

I defiantly plan on taking another look at seating depth. After learning how important that is, I know I need to look at it.

quote:

Originally posted by Ol` Joe:
...Speer offers swagged bullet instead of cast. The swagged ones normally are soft lead and strip in the rifleing if driven too hard. ...

Excellent info which makes good sense.

Years ago I bought a M93 Argentine carbine. I bought some 7.65 Arg ammo and tried it out. At twenty five yards I wasn't getting any bullet strikes on the target. With iron sights, there just did not seem to be any way that this could happen. I moved to 15 yards and began to get hits all over the large target I was using (the back of a man sized silhouette) and most were keyholing. Although the bore looked shinny I concluded,it was essentially shot out.

I did some reloads with a 125 grain bullet for an AK with a hollow base. This bullet opened up upon firing and seated into the lands and groves stabilizing the bullet. Others that I have with a solid base, would not stabilize. Kudude

OK, today was results day:

I got my new bullets last night 1m each 200gr and 185gr lswc, hard as a rock.

I loaded 7 cartridges with 6.9gr Unique with a CCI 300 primer, 200gr lswc bullet seating to a overall length of 1.214" (leaving enough room so a little piece of paper would slip between the bullet head and interior of the magazine. Then the 185gr lswc got a 5.4 grain powder load with everything else the same.

The targets look like they were punched with a paper punch; nice crisp holes, almost perfectly round.

Thanks guys.

put a call in to Steve Martin at Reloaders Outlet, if I recall corectly he is in Penn Hills which is in your neck of the woods.
When I lived your side of the pond I spent a fair amount of time with Steve, and since he also used to reload commercially he is a mine of info, Please tell him "hey" from Sunny South Africa,

Regards,
John

John I will do that; I will be going to Penn Hills here soon and may even just stop by.

Thanks,

Final update: I found a really good deal on Laser Sight Grips for my 1911, 45 and couldn’t pass them up. I got them the other day and went down yesterday to sight them in with a box of new loads from your guys suggestions. I adjusted the load a bit more down, 200gr lswc, CCI 300 primer, 6.5gr Unique and went to sight it in. Those are so easy to adjust since you know exactly where the beam was when you pulled the trigger so in 5 shots I got my first bull (3/4" center). I then hung another fresh target and placed 5 shots in that 3/4" center.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, again for your help. I've got a real nice shooting gun now.

quote:

Originally posted by wboggs:
Well that really doesn’t answer my question; what causes keyholeing? I already kind of figured the bullet wasn’t flying right.

Keyholing occurs when an elongaterd bullet is not given a fast-enough spin by the barrel. Either the rifling twist is not fast enough, or for some reason the bullet is not being gripped adequately by the barrel-it is too soft, too small around, or as some mentioned, it just isn't launched fast enough to avoid tumbling.

Start by examining the bore, then force an oversized soft lead slug through the bore and mike it. The lands should be .444" or so, the groove diameter .451" -.452". Bullets should be .451" in diameter at least, and if lead alloy, made from an alloy that is at least 9 to 12 on the Brinell hardness scale. Of course, if you are shooting jacketed bullets, jackets are plenty hard enough. I would use a load that gives at least 750 FPS, otherwise the action might not cycle either.

El Deguello, thanks for your help but I think you missed my last couple of posts. I got it fixed to 5, .45 cal. shots within a 3/4" circle at 50'. The keyholing was a result of under powdered cartridges.