Got a newbie reloader question for the more experienced reloaders on here.

Rifle: Savage model 10 in 308
Load: 168gr SMK over 46 grains of MR-2000 (max published is 48.5 gr), Tula primers

Process: Deprimed, 8 hour tuble in walnut media, full length sized with RCBS case lube, wipe down lube with alcohol rag, 100% measure and trim to 2.005 with a lee quick trim press mounted system. Primed, hand weigh each charge, seat and crimp.

So this is the second time I've used this process. First was during load development where I settled on 46 grains of powder. Everything worked fine, 48 rounds total, as well as about 100 factory rounds through the rifle, no problems.

Here's what happened:

About 50% of my loads were a difficult extraction (stuck case). Either excessive force was required, and in several cases I had to use a couple gentle taps on the bolt handle with a plastic mallet to unstick the case.

Here's what I tried for troubleshooting so far:

Cleaning with a bore brush and a boresnake to rule out fouling didn't help.

I noticed that there is a reasonable amount of carbon on the outside of the case necks after firing. That was not true of factory ammo I fired. I suspected leftover case lube, so I tried wiping down the cases with alcohol a second time. I did spot some lube residue on the rag, but that didn't fix the problem.

The only other factor I found was that the PPU (once fired Prvi) ammo headstamps were almost always stuck cases.

So, anyone seen these two effects (carbon on the outside of the case necks) with a stuck case symptom and know the cure?

PPU brass may be heavy? Weigh some and compare to Winchester or Remington brass weight is about 170gr with a spent primer. I would reduce the load a full 15% and work up .5gr at a time.
I would turn out the full length die about 1 to 2 turns and resize until the case just fits the chamber or just neck size. a better fit of the case to the chamber. you could be creating a head space problem if you full length die is set to resize to much.
Dave

H,
Are there any other signs of over pressure on the brass? How far from the lands are you seating the bullets? If you are well off the lands and have a consistent seating depth, then I would look at three things. All related to what hivelosity points out first, variation in brass. Weigh or use water to check capacity, I am guessing that you will find the PPU brass weighs more, thus less capacity. This can make a difference in pressure.

Second I would look at the thickness of the brass at the neck. Variation here can cause a difference in neck tension, thus affect pressure.

The third thing that comes to mind is that you are crimping, how do you set your die? Is this consistent with the first loading that showed not troubles? I don’t crimp, so perhaps someone else can pass along their experiences on this.

Yes, this may all seems a bit odd given you are below the listed max. I have a .223 Rem bolt gun that I had pressure signs below listed max. on a load that previously did not show signs. Traced it back to a variation in brass, same brand, different lots, an inconsistent seating depth issue that moved them form close to very close to the lands.

Best of luck with this, most importantly be safe, separate out this brass and follow HV’s advice, reduce and work your way back up.

Let us know what you find.

Carl

P.s. Can you post pictures of the brass? This may help in a diagnosis.

I would guess The Prvi brass has less capacity than your new brass, whatever brand it is, causing the pressure issues. Best to separate the brass headstamps and load accordingly. I think you'll find the Prvi brass will require less powder than your other brass.

Repeat the same drill with a different powder (or 2) compatible/recommended for the .308. If you get similar results, I would suspect it's a brass issue , as others already have mentioned. A buddy recently had pretty much the same thing going on with a 270.

One simple test to check your neck thickness: See if a bullet will slide fairly easily into the neck of a fired case. If it will, it means you have enough room for the neck to expand and release the bullet. ergo, you don't have a neck thickness problem. 'Course you could buy one or more thingies that would tell you the same thing.
I'm curious about the soot on the fired cases. That usually means a under pressure load. I'm gonna guess that even if your brass is heavier (less capacity)than the brass used to determine the max load, that 2.5gr cushion should take care of any difference.
Does all of your brass have the same head stamp?

Found my first error.

H/T to CJW3 with " How far from the lands are you seating the bullets? If you are well off the lands and have a consistent seating depth, then I would look at three things."

Here is my recipe:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/r...lletid=249&bdid=1043

Alliant calls out the minimum OAL for this round as 2.800, which happens to match the SAAMI spec. When I test fit one of my bullets, there was a little resistance to the bolt closing. Wasn't sure what was going on... then I mic'd the bullet, and it came up 2.815. Way too long for any margin over the saami spec. In addition, none of the factory rounds I have (checked 3 different ones, 150, 175, and 180 gr) and all of them were below 2.8. Looks like I need to reseat the bullets to within saami spec before I resume shooting.

Sorry, the link is for my reference data, not for my recipe, which is above.

Don't run off in too many directions at once.

If your sticky loads with associated with the PPU brass there is a chance it is softer and causing the sticky extraction. If your chamber is a little rough it can magnify the effects of soft brass.

The seating length is not likely to be the problem. Certainly .015 extra lenght is basically nothing. You can get half of that out of point variations.

.308 brass is easy to find.
Find some more of the brand that did not give you any trouble and load it.

The PPU brass may require a lighter powder charge. Tt may be too much trouble to use and deserves to be retired.

If you are new to reloading, the first thing to keep in mind is - KEEP IT SIMPLE & LEARN THE BASICS

Read the Lyman manual - early chapters & stick to that one source of load data for 1 year! I can assure that it is easy to get confused and make simple mistake because of the huge amount of info available on the web.

Particularly important is the chapter on pressure. This is the most important and most complex subject. You need to understand what affects pressure & how. Pressure increases in a curve. As you increase loads, bullet wights etc, the pressure will climb faster than velocity. Even experienced reloaders make mistakes on this front!

You will learn a lot by investing in a simple Chronograph like the shooting Chrony. You take the guess work out of the equation by checking your loads on the Chrony to make sure that your loads are safe in velocity and pressure.

Some rifles can give max velocity & pressure with 2 or 3 grains less powder than the book load - simply a tighter chamber that is at the lower end of SAMI spec.

Wiping off lube from cases - I find toilet paper strips are ideal. I arrange the cases on a long strip 10 cases at a time - alternating the case direction. Then I fold the strip of TP & just rub the cases on the table for a while. All the lube should wipe off. Now I just take a clean bit of TP & quickly wipe each case. I also make a stub with rolled TP and wipe the insides of the cases to remove any lube.

I had the same problem with my 5.56. Found out I didn't have my sizing die set down far enough! Also make sure your trimming enough...

H,
How is progress on your reloading?
Had another thought on you troubles, so a qick question, what type of scale are you using? With both type of scales, beam and electronic, you should re-zero each time prior to use. Failure to due this could get you inaccurate weights. Perhaps to the + side, thus to much weight, translating to high pressure.

Now, don't ask me how I know this.

Regads,
Carl