I got bit by the hornet bug again a week ago and dug everything out of the closet that I needed. I hadn't even seen my cz 527 in the last five years. I ordered some new Varmint Grenades from midway because I like the grape commercial. I ordered the 30gr and on a whim, the box of 36gr because I remember this gun liked 40gr VMAX's pretty well.

I use 13.0gr of LILGUN for everything hornet with a FED100 small pistol primer. Pretty standard stuff.

I went to the range yesterday and the 36gr VG not only wouldn't stabilize, but, at 100 yards seemed to fly itself wherever it wanted to. I have never had a bullet spread into 15 inch jumps at 100. I switched to another 35gr NO LEAD plastic tip equally as long and off it went again.

I thought my scope had blown it's reticle, so, I quit and came home. Today with a new scope fitted to my CZ I went back to the range with a handful of 30gr VG's, 35gr Dogtown hp's, and the 36 gr barnes again. This time I was thinking about the 36's being to long.

The 30gr Barnes VGs' were fine. The Dogtowns were fine. The 36gr Barnes VG's flew to every corner of my backer.

Lessons are relearned. I am used to an unstable bullet key holing, but, I don't recall seeing a bullet fly itself to the four corners on a large backer board.

I am now home and have retrieved my original scope from the trash. It may be bad also, but, it may just be the "flying" bullets which made every adjustment yesterday not valid.

Moral: Don't use the Barnes 36gr VG's in a 1-16" twist barrel.

thanks to all for letting me sound off. rch

Unless you saw indications of yawing in the holes left by the errant bullets you can't necessarily chalk up their inaccuracy to inadequate stabilization. Could be something else entirely. I've found non-lead bullets to be somewhat unpredictable in their behavior. A 50 grain conventional cup/core spitzer bullet does fine in a 1-16" twist; how its length compares to a 35 grain monometal (or sintered metal bullet) I can't say as I stay as far away from monometals as possible.

I saw no key-holing, but, they just seemed to fly. The 35gr Varmint Grenade is long for it's weight but did not tumble. I believe they are yawing left, right, up, or down and then taking flight on the new track. I have NO EARTHY idea what is happening, but, today, when I switched to a standard bullet, it was back into the group.

I am 66 and been shooting for 50 plus years. I have never seen this before. This is the second really strange thing I have seen this year.

thanks rch

Interesting results you had.

My Sako L461 has a 1-16 twist, I believe, and it will shoot the 60gr Vmax and 53gr Vmax very, very well. It shoots 45gr Barnes XLC's pretty well, at just over 1" at 100yds.

My Ruger M77 in Hornet shoots the 45gr Barnes XLC right at an inch, with 13.0gr Lilgun and the spp.

My take: if the rifle doesn't like the load, the rifle doesn't like the load.

k-22hornet: What is the twist rate on your Ruger 77/22H?

I have had good results with anything lead. The sierra's, vmax's, even the 50gr dogtown softpoints will shoot in my 527. I use 13gr of lil gun with anything in this gun and it shoots. To me, a bad group at 100 would be 5" not 16". It is really hard to picture how this is happening.

I still have some loaded that I can either shoot or pull. Maybe I will try to see what is happening by shooting 25 and then 50. See if I can see where/when they are blowing out any grouping.

While my 1-16 twist is not working with the Barnes 36gr VG, it loves the Barnes 30gr VG.

This thread is not Barnes Bashing. I LOVE Barnes bullets. I use them in several calibers with great success. I use them exclusively in my 375 H&H because they are the most accurate for my rifle.

thanks rch

While playing with 2 hornet rifles,1 a Ruger and the other a CZ,we have found that the weight does not mean a lot it is the length that makes them suckers fly weird.

We are still working with the Ruger trying to find a good load,the CZ likes RL-7 and 35-40 grain bullets.
Shooting some Winchester hollow points and Sierra pointed bullets.

RC,

The Ruger is a 1-14".

I've shot 40 to 55grs out of it, and with Lilgun, the accuracy is pretty good.

I tried H4227 with a srp, before I found Lilgun, and it was a solid 2" shooter.

I tried a load with Rem 71/2 primers, and the group really puckered up compared to a Fed spp, using a 45gr Speer and 13.0gr Lilgun.

So, what I am getting at, is give a srp a try, just in case.

plainsman456, I too believe the issue with the Barnes 36gr VG is the length vs weight. This is a very long for weight no PB bullet. I shoot 50 gr soft points with no issues. My 527 also will shoot the 40 vmax with no issues.

K-22hornet, I am going to try the Rem 61/2 srp (it's on my list). I will run a few 71/2 srp just because you suggested it.

I will shoot the two non-pb loads again (just to finish what I loaded). I will run them at 25yds instead of 100 and see if I can tell what they are doing.

I went to the Barnes site and found that only the 30gr VG is recommended in the 1-16 hornet. It shoots very well. Maybe Barnes already figured out not to use the 36gr in the 1-16.

I am on the way to the range in a few minutes. I will report back again later.

thanks to all. rch

I would guess a 1-14 twist or faster may be needed to stabilize the 36gn VG bullets

Run the numbers:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

Bought an older (1970) M700 in 223 a few years ago that had a 1 in 14 twist. We are in a lead-free bullet zone so monometals are the only way to go. Couldn't get any hits on the target until I got withing about 15 yards. This is what I found.

223 bullets increase in length dramatically when going to monometals for the same weight because of the relatively small diameter.

Craigster is right. The JBM tool shows that there is no way I am going to stabilize the 36gr VG in a 1-16 twist barrel. It also shows the Barnes 30gr to me marginal(yellow).

On the other hand it shows the Midway Dogtown 34 to be fine at 3000. If I ever were to re-barrel I think I would consider going to maybe a 12tw if I had to live with the mono-metals.

Just back from the range, and shot 1/2" groups with the Dogtown 34gr and 13gr of LILGUN. Then I shot up the flyers. That was a waste of powder and barrel life. I should have pulled them.

I may start another thread on the 527 hornet barrel. Anybody notice that when it gets hot, the groups open significantly (over an inch).

thanks to all.
rch

I rebarreled that 223 to 1in9. It now stabilizes 62gr TSX fine. Might do OK on heavier but don't have the need and never tried it.

I tried some 107 grain VLDs in a 6mm-284 that was originally a 243 Winchesters, there wasn't enough twist and it would not stabilize. Same problem, too long for the twist and velocity. It's fine with 85-grain Partition bullets and I think I remember it being ok with 85-grain blue bullets.