I spent a lot of money buying 40 pieces of new Norma brass in 22-250, there is no way to size the stuff with enough neck tension using a RCBS FL die or a Lee collet neck sizer, the only way to get the right neck tension with this norma brass is to use the redding bushing setup, which see another thread has lead to issues of its own. I am not happy about this being the case as I have brass that I can't use, I size it up in my RCBS FL die, I go to measure the bullet with my comparator and the bullet just pushes into the case. My question is this grounds for asking for a refund on the brass??

Hey c c

What bullet are you using?

it doesn't matter which bullet I use, berger, hornady SP, vmaxes, speer SP, all just fall down into the case with the slightest pressue, I didn't know there was a problem at first, then while shooting, a round wasn't quite strait going into the barrel and the bullet pushed all the way down inside the case, thank goodness I didn't try to fire the gun. then everytime I check seating dept with my comparator they just push in at that time too

I do believe you could make it work by reducing your RCBS dies expander ball .002". On the other hand, you shouldn't have to go to that extreme. Did you buy the brass new or if it was used could it have been neck turned?

Either way, I'd wipe my hands of it, Norma brass has been very disappointing for me.

Most likely case is that the necks are to soft (over annealed).
Run a deprimed case through your RCBS die, with the expander removed, and see how your neck tension is than.

Don't ask me how I know about over annealed necks, but 2-3 cycles of size/no expand and fire will work the brass enough to eliminate the problem .

nothing to it - just rebarrel the rifle to 6mm/250 AI and the the brass will work

quote:

Originally posted by cummins cowboy:
I spent a lot of money buying 40 pieces of new Norma brass in 22-250, there is no way to size the stuff with enough neck tension using a RCBS FL die ...

Hey CC, Have you tried removing the Expander and then Resizing them?

i will try removeing the expander and seeing how that works, I don't wanna do anything to modify my die, because then it would not work with my regular brass. I used my cheap old standard RCBS FL die and a comp seater to make some very good loads last night, none of my loads where over .00225 runout, most where under .0015. I think giveing the cases a healthy chamfer has helped with seating the flat base bullets better

I don't feel like I should have to do any extra work or hassle to use this high dollar brass

My two experiences --22-250 & .222 -- were not pleasant.

Hey CC, If removing the Expander tightens the Necks enough to hold the Bullets(which it should), you can buy a new Expander Ball and reduce the Diameter slightly for use with this Lot of Cases.

Any good Gun Shop should have them, or modify the one you have and get a New Expander directly from RCBS. If you call RCBS and tell them why you need a new one, chances are it will be in the mail to you the same day - at no cost.

Best of luck with those Cases.

quote:

Originally posted by papaschmud:
I do believe you could make it work by reducing your RCBS dies expander ball .002". On the other hand, you shouldn't have to go to that extreme. Did you buy the brass new or if it was used could it have been neck turned?

Either way, I'd wipe my hands of it, Norma brass has been very disappointing for me.

I agree. Take the expander button out of the FL die completely to see if the cases will hold bullets when they are NOT expanded at all after sizing them down. If you can seat a bullet, the case grips it firmly, and the case neck is not collapsed, you are in business......

Of course, you may need to get a universal deapping die to decap them after you remove the expander rod. But I suppose you can just take the expander button off the decapping rod and use it that way.

I guess a bunch of money is a relative term but I cannot visulize a bunch of money in 40 pieces of brass! Are you sure you are not using a decapping dieto start with? I like Norma brass and have never had a problem with it. Either the bullets are too small or the case mouth too large, basic measuring is in order. I would recommend checking everything that you are doing very carefully as you are more likely the problem than the brass

I've never cared much for Norma brass either, but I doubt that's the problem. I've had the same problem with just about every centerfire rifle caliber I've had dies for at one time or another.

Remove expander ball; discard; decap by hand. Problem solved.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by doccash:
I guess a bunch of money is a relative term but I cannot visulize a bunch of money in 40 pieces of brass! Are you sure you are not using a decapping dieto start with? I like Norma brass and have never had a problem with it. Either the bullets are too small or the case mouth too large, basic measuring is in order. I would recommend checking everything that you are doing very carefully as you {OR YOUR DIES} are more likely the problem than the brass

With my small tweak to DocCash's post, it seems a well considered, reasonable post.

I would therefore agree!

If the resizing ball is too big why not try a country boy fix before going to a whole lot of trouble. Usually the difference between a firm grip on the bullet and a sloppy one is measured in .000"s. Why not take the resizing ball with the spindel still attached out of the die, chuck the spindel in a drill motor and stone a couple of thousands off the ball. Finish with a go of #0000 steel wool and you're fixed.

That is a great fix that I have used also. I just don't use an expander in my bushing dies though. You know the only time you really need and expander is in a die that undersizes the neck by .010 or more from the loaded diameter.

quote:

Originally posted by doccash:
I guess a bunch of money is a relative term but I cannot visulize a bunch of money in 40 pieces of brass! Are you sure you are not using a decapping dieto start with? I like Norma brass and have never had a problem with it. Either the bullets are too small or the case mouth too large, basic measuring is in order. I would recommend checking everything that you are doing very carefully as you are more likely the problem than the brass

Ditto.

Methinks it's the Injun not the arrow.......

I use RWS, Lapua & Norma in the corresponding calibers which they make and Winchester in those they don't. Frankly they are ALL worth the extra $.

I decap on a separate Redding press, using an RCBS universal decap die. The only dies I use that still have the expander are for my .44 magnum and .416 Rigby- that's it.

I necksize only (with the exception of the 44 & 416) using a Forster CoAx and Redding S type dies with .001in tension (and .007 in only my 340 Wby). All the decap/expanders have been removed from those dies.

P.S. Redding also makes a "floating" carbide expander ball (same principle as the floating bushing), if you insist on having one.

I bought about 100 rounds for my 300 Win and I loaded it up the same as I always did and shot it then I resized it and went to seat the primer
and it wouldn't seat to loose. This was not a Hot load I shot. So what can I do but throw it out and never buy anymore.

Ughhhh.....Boys, if the primer seated fine the first time,was fired and then the case would not hold a primer, a careful look at data and components is in order. The load is just too damn hot! The rant could go on and on.

Or the brass could be too soft. That was my problem when I tried Norma. I didn't have loose primers but the brass would not tolerate a proven load and when I reduced it, they still did not give me the life span I would expect.
Buy it. If you like it, stay with it. Myself? I'll go elsewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by cummins cowboy:
i will try removeing the expander and seeing how that works, ...

Hey CC, Did the Case hold the Bullet?