The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Anybody else shoot "unclean" brass and live to tell about it?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Beat me up as you will, but I'm stumped why shooting brass with a bit of tarnish is so taboo. Over the last 20 years I've fooled around with tumbling, polishing, liquid media, corn cob media, walnut shell media, rogue this and additive that... and I'm just not convinced its worth all the extra trouble just to have the brass a bit shinier. I can't tell you how many people I've guided who have shown up with hundreds of bright shiny reloads, but obviously spent very little time working on their shooting skills. That just seems like drastically misspent time to me. It seems like I've been able to find accurate and safe loads without the brass looking new for its entire life. Sure I trim the cases, clean the primer pockets, etc. those steps make sense. I just can't always justify the extra hassle to keep them shiny and new looking. But then I don't find the need to wear the latest camo pattern, wash my truck before every hunting trip or have the latest equipment in the group either. Am I being lazy or are there other "closet" dirty brass users out there? Thanks, Kyler | ||
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Oh thank you Kyler, Do you know how stressful it has been to live under don't ask, don't tell policy...all these years never being able to be myself...having to hide my dirty brass. I tumble my brass whenever I remember to and only when it is so ugly that even I don't like the way it looks. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Shiny brass is easier to find. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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Kyler I have never tumbled brass. I have tried 'Krazy Kloth', IOSSO and so on but rely on my cleaning cloth and wrist action to "clean" brass up after the sizing wax / lube routine. I do use a pocket brush and map pin on primer pocket. Guess I should add that loads I take on safari tend to be < 4 times reloaded... _______________________ | |||
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Why, accuracy. Cleaning the powder residue off the case necks will make a 1/8" difference in a good varmit rifle. Uniformly clean cases just eliminate one more variable. In addition, it's one more thing you can do at home, since we don't all live right next to a nice range. Will the deer ever know the difference? NOPE. | |||
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Antelope Sniper, That's an interesting point about the accuracy. Has that 1/8" theory from dirty vs. clean necks been tested? I'm not doubting you, I have just never heard that. Would it be from neck tension? Tolerances to the 100,000th of an inch? I'm not sure. 1/8" of an inch makes the difference of whether or not to get out of bed for a benchrest shooter so then I could see it. But I have too many friends that are bench shooters that have no life other than case prep so its hard to separate what helps accuracy from simple reloading OCD. I should bug one of them to do that test, but I doubt they could risk being seen at the range with a dirty neck for fear of dreaded equipment rejection from the gang. | |||
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As long as the brass is clean, I have no isues shooting it. Polished shiney brass doesn't necessarily shoot any better. Maybe, but the variables, wind, temp, humidity, etc, in any one days shooting can be 1/8" in a precision rifle. Clean brass is easier to inspect, but super shiney, ok, but not required. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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BTW - When I say "dirty" I don't literally mean covered with dirt or corrosion. Obviously that can be dangerous and effect function/reliability. I mean tarnished and/or coated with some soot from firing. | |||
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Shiny brass don't earn no extra points nor kill stuff deader. I tumble my brass to get the resizing oil off of it. And that's all. It does a better, more uniform job than I could with a old tee shirt or a bunch of chemicals. Whilst the brass is tumbling around, the case is being cleaned inside and out and the crud in the primer pocket is being removed. You may end up with a bit of smoke on the neck, a little tarnish on the brass and a stain in the primer pocket but the cases are clean and dry and ready to load.  Aim for the exit hole | |||
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I didn't clean my brass - for years, just wiped it off and ran it through the resizer, works fine, brass life OK. I do now have a tumbler and actually use it, some of the time. | |||
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 I do tumble my brass now and have for perhaps 15 years. Do I think it is necessary? Well it wasn't for the previous 38 years. But shinny is nice.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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I have a theory for this conundrum. Call me sexist, but reloading and shooting uncleaned brass is kind of like having sex with a woman with hairy armpits, if you know what I mean: Perhaps it won't feel any different, but it's the idea, you know. Lets face it. Who doesn't find sparkling shiny brass, and smooth shaved pits sort of sexy? Cheers, Albatross. | |||
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I might be a bit twisted, but I've never thought that sparkling shiny brass was sexy. | |||
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  Now that's funny. I tumble them from time to time but kinda follow this theory. When its bad enough to bother me i will, most of the time when its just a little tarnish on the neck I wont. Curtis | |||
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People in California live very active lives and have little time for the mundane chores related to reloading. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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kyler, 7/16/10 I reload and shoot about 14,000 rounds a year, split between .45, 9mm, .38 special, .357 magnum and a few hundred .270 Winchester and 30-06. I tumbled two batches of cases years ago and found no advantage other than having a bright, shiny case. My regular routine is to wipe off each case with a paper towel while inspecting the base, body and mouth. It takes between 6 & 7 seconds per case. I have had no trouble spotting cracked cases and have not scratched any dies. And just because one tumbles the cases does not mean you can skip the inspection part of reloading. In Summary- tumbling for me is an extra, time consuming step whose only benefit is a shiny case. best wishes- oldandslow | |||
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Hey Pilgrim, What do you mean you don't wash your truck before going Hunting? The proper time to wash it is when you get back from Hunting and need to wash off all the Red Stuff.  Great thread!I prefer bright sparkling, shiney Cases when they will be used in a Semi-Auto or a Pump. Granted it might not make any difference at all, but that is where I really want them. For everything else, if they end up being Polished when they come out of the Tumbler from getting the Lube removed, that is fine too, but not mandatory. By the way, even the Nickle Plated Cases will tarnish and have a Dull Patina when left alone in Humid country. Why would anyone want to scare off THOUSANDS of Deer by flashing around Cases which are waaaaaaay too bright!  | |||
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guys, TMI, I think I'll stick with don't ask, don't tell and pray for huntin' season to get here quick. GWB | |||
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Hi...my name's Brad  , and I'm a non-tumbler  !Whew, that was hard...but it's good to know there's others out there that have the same "problem" as I do. In all seriousness, I used to tumble my brass before each reload, now I will go 3-4 loadings before shining it up again. I do inspect every case after sizing when I wipe off the case lube wax, as well as check the length and trim accordingly...tumbling during each reloading session just wastes too much of my valuable time, which can be spent shootin' stuff!  | |||
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I tumble my pistol brass so I don't get something unwanted in the carbide dies. It takes no time. Throw it in the tumbler, empty the tumbler into the brass sifter, give it a turn or two and dump it back in the box. No problem at all. Now the rifle brass.....maybe, maybe not. The dirty secret about it is sometimes I do not use the expander ball. Great consistant neck tension every time. The neck springs back some after sizing so I don't worry much about it and I have had expander balls wreak havok before. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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 I admit to shooting 'unclean brass' on occasion, especially on rifle cases that only need a bit of a twist on the case neck with a scuff pad before running through the sizing die...especially a Lee collet neck-sizing die. But I always tumble or ultrasonically clean every case that goes into a carbide die. Personally, I've never seen how batch cleaning is a 'waste of time' as I never stand over them watching them go round and round. I use the Ron Popeil 'set-it-and-forget-it' philosophy. But then I have more than 1 batch of brass for each caliber. Therefore I never have to wait for it to get clean before starting the reloading process. In summary, I'm not anal about sparkling, polished brass...or cleaning the crust out of the primer pocket every single time. I have no problem with folks that do. It's just that I've never seen the difference in group size with tarnished brass, ammo loaded on a Dillon progressive, ammo NOT using Federal primers, etc., on my hunting loads, varmint loads included. It seems my shooting ability is the determining factor more than how I prep each round. | |||
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There is a little understood reason for polishing brass cases - that is case grip on the chamber walls. Nice clean shiney polished brass has less frictional grip then dirty and unpolished brass. This affects the way the case settles against the bolt face during firing. Clean dry and unpolished brass will have high friction and grip which will be inconsistant from case to case and will increase the amount of barrel vibration due to a more sudden settling against the bolt base. Case life can be expected to be shorter when clean and dry an unpolished too. The simplest trick (which is not recommended because it can bring the moon out of orbit) is to leave a thin film of case-lube on the loaded case. The down-side of that trick is one never gets to trim the case mouth as the cases don't 'grow'. (I did say it's not recommended! It increases bolt face thrust which could destroy a good strong modern action.) Umm.. only lube will help in a rough chamber! Regards 303Guy | |||
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+1 Been reloading since 1948, and never tumbled a case.  I shoot my loads, I don't set them up for inspection..LMAO | |||
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Hi . . . my name's Dom & I'm a non-tumbler Good one CoyoteKiller. I do clean the cases with liquid cleaner but do not tumble or polish. Don't have shiny cases . . . There are some who shoot only so they can reload, and those who only reload so they can shoot, that's me. I like reloading, to a point, and am picky about certain tasks, but polishing is not one of them, Waidmannsheil, Dom. -------- There are those who only reload so they can shoot, and then there are those who only shoot so they can reload. I belong to the first group. Dom --------- | |||
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I'd have to side with "Duckear"... ...I have a terrible time locating my unpolished 8mm brass among the wood chips at one range I shoot at; they blend right in! Maybe I'll finally get the tumbler up and running just to facilitate finding this brass. | |||
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When I do tumble, it's usually when I am not reloading or shooting, no time wasted. I just tumble to clean the brass. Especially semiauto brass that gets thrown in the dirt. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Clean! You want to get the residue off the brass, out of the case, and clean out the primer pocket. If your brass is full of powder residue, it's going to affect your case capacity and your load pressures. If your neck is dirty it will affect bullet release. Dirty primer pockets affect ignition. That said, I don't tumble, I WASH brass in a mixture of hot water, dish detergent, salt, lemon juice, white vinegar. Not rocket science, and there are formulas for this stuff all over the net. | |||
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What do they lubricate locks with? Graphite lube, right? Graphite is a form (allotrope) of carbon What is the soot/carbon residue on your brass made of? Carbon. Both (unlike Diamond, another allotrope of carbon) have lubricating properties. My dirty (pistol) brass does go in and out of the sizing dies easier than my clean brass. Try it yourself and draw your own conclusions. Just make sure you don't have any grit, sand, etc. on your brass. Lost Sheep | |||
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Lost Sheep, is that just cleaned or cleaned and polished? Which lube are you using? Regards 303Guy | |||
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i tumble all my cases. mainly because where i shoot it is all dirt and my cases end up with dirt and crap on them. also i tend to load most of my plinking stuff on the light side so i tend to have more carbon on the case. i also just like the look of nice shiney brass. it takes me no more time to tumble either because i have my tumbler set up in my shop. when i go outside i throw a batch of brass in and let it run. it might run for 2 hours and ill take a peek at it if it looks good i dump it out. other times i may be doing something and turn it on and it may run for 6 or 8 hours before i come back to it. all of my plinking ammo i load in batches of 1k so i i usually just collet it and when i get enough to throw in ill polish it all up then size, deprime and have it ready and waiting to load. | |||
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As I've said, I tumble enough to get the resizing lube off. But folks keep talking about dirt and mud and grit?? My first step in reloading is to wipe each case with a soft cloth while inspecting it. No dirt, no grit, no mud. I've never tumbled any cases before resizing and don't see the advantage to it. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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I thought about getting a tumbler a few times over the last 45 years I have been loading because shinny brass looks nice. I have washed cases before its easy to do hundreds in half a hr. Some Dawn dish soap hot water make sure they are deprimed other wise it takes for ever to get the primer pockets dry. Use a hair drier if you need to have them dry fast other wise I just set them by the wood stove. Then that is only if they are starting to look really bad. | |||
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Life's too short to hunt with dull brass    ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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Okay, I'm an old dude who has no appreciation for fluff. Clean cases are good, glittery cases are total fluff. Glittery cases sorta have a toyish artificial/plasticy look. The constant stream of web questions asking what media and polish is "best" gets chuckles from me, what a trivial thing to agonise over! A properly sized case will fit the chamber. Variations in wall polish and resistance should be irrelivant. IMHO. | |||
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Woods and I are in the same camp. Of course I used a lot of his info from here on AR setting up my bench. It also gives me some confidence that everything was done to spec. I had thought the liquid was going to be good - but the tumbler was easy, fast, and shiny. So I got two tumbers. Threw out the liquids. Now if I just get all the Thingys working right I will be good to go. | |||
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Life is too short to get wrapped up in OCD for the hell of it. Reflectivity means nothing. The brass needs to be clean. Wash and rinse. If it has anything left that will affect your dies or chamber tumble it. Then keep it clean. | |||
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Hey Tex, I totally agree with you about using "if". You could always have a Plan B and avoid a lot of need for aspirin.  | |||
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I'm about the least OCD guy you could find, just ask my wife!  The thing is I have had a tumbler, have used soap and water, Iosso and everything else except the vibrating cleaners. The way I do it is the easiest, fastest and least expensive way I have found. Being slick and shiny is just a side benefit. So for me it is either leave them dirty or clean the way I do. So all you other guys with tumblers, liquids and vibrators are the OCD guys! ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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What does OCD mean. You computer whizzes are getting so far beyond a dumb ass like me that one of your ought to write a tutorial about cyberspace codes. Maybe while you're leaving your brass in the tumbler over long. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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My 2 second Google search of 'OCD' presented me with 6,890,00 results for obsessive-compulsive disorder. | |||
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