Playing with reloads on this cartridge, which I just love for a lot of reasons.

Anyone reload this cartridge for single shots or a bolt action?

Would enjoy seeing if it is popular besides in Lever Action rifles.

Cheers
thunderbolt

"Anyone reload this cartridge for single shots or a bolt action?"

Yes ,a mod 340.Load a little of everything in it but mostly 110gr.RN soft points and RN fmjs roger

Pratt & Whitney 2800?????


thunderbolt[/QUOTE]

I've got a 16" barreld T/C Contender carbine in good old .30 WCF. I like shooting the cheap Remington 125 grains bullets in it. Makes for a very compact light recoiling package.

Some people over here use 30/30 insert barrels for their drillings and combination rifles, in addition to the large buullet. They claim that the performance is excellent on roe deer and that meat destruction is quite neglectable.

T/C Contender Carbine, 22" barrel. Loaded for it over a 3 year period before giving up. The gun has an oversized chamber that T/C refuses to acknowledge or repair/replace, thus case life is 1-2 firings before head separation. It shoots well with factory ammo for the most part, and has had flashes of brilliance with RX15 and 150 gr Sierra spitzers. Frustratrating and tantalizing POS.

The cartridge is a good one and with spitzer bullets I think adequate to 250 yards or so for deer.

I am working today making a bushing to screw a Marlin 335 like 30-30 barrel on a 91/20 reciever, so I can overload it.

A$$clown has calculated that the brass should be good to between 88 kpsi and 94 kpsi chamber pressure depending on the brass hardness.

In the past, I have overloaded .223 and .308 brass until the primer pocket failed, and it failed VERY close to A$$clown's predictions.


If I were to guess, the Uberti/Berretta 1885 high wall in 30-30 and the NEF Handi Rifle in 30-30 would also be good candidates for extra SAAMI exploration.

I have a Savage model 340 and it shoots well with 130gr Hornady Spire points with 36.5gr of BLC-2.and CCI primers. It seems to shoot well with anything I feed it though. It has a 22" barrel, might replace it with a longer barrel though I have reloaded 30-30 more then any other cartridge. It also shoots 170gr cast bullet from Lee good as well.The rifle has been in the family for over 50 years now.

I have two 788's in .30-30. I have been shooting cast bullets in them pretty much exclusively for the past 20 years or so, mostly in the normal .30-30 velocity / pressure ranges.

I do have 2 cast loads that are probably running close to 50,000 cup that I use on the 500 Meter steel ram silhouette. Both use 748 powder. One is a 208 gr. 311299 cast bullet at 2,250 f.p.s. and a 225 gr cast bullet going 2,160 f.p.s. in 22" barrels.

Back in the late 70's - early 80's I did some hot rodding, mostly with 110 to 150 gr. bullets, the 110's at over 3,000 and the 150's at over 2,600. I was using H335 back then.
I had no problem whatsoever with the W-W cartridge cases. I neck sized them only and they went right back into the gun.

In the early 1990's there was an article in the American Rifleman about a ".30-30 Varminter". A fellow put a .30-30 heavy 26" barrel on a Ruger No. 1 action and used the 125 gr. ballistic tip Nosler bullet over an undisclosed amount of H335. His load was tested at a ballistic lab and generated 3,025 f.p.s. and generated 52,000 c.u.p.

Long live the .30-30!

w30wcf

I recently got a T/C 10 inch bbl. I found a used Contender and really wanted only the action. The dealer wouldn't break it up so now I have a 30-30. (If you've tried a G2 action, you know why I wanted an older one!)
I did find that it shoots pretty well with a Hornady 120gr Spire point. It still falls quite a bit behind my 30 Herritt both in velocity and accuracy, but is nowhere near as finicky to load. Only trouble is you have to be careful that some damn fool doesn't load those pointy bullets into a model 94.

Have been giving H&R Toppers (years ago) and now T/C Contenders in .30-30 to children and grandchildren for years. The 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and 135gr Sierras have been the standard bullets, depending on which one the particular gun shot best. Accuracy has been topnotch. Have had witnesses (including a game warden) who've seen 200yd+ shots/kills and were amazed.

W30WCF:

I would be interested in a little more info on the loads of the 208 grain and the 225 grain cast bullets you spoke of using W 748. I have tried that with a 220 grain Sierra RN and got an MV of 2100 out of a 20 inch barrel.

I am sure Clark would be extremely interested in it. Currently I am playing with the 220 grain RN as a single shot load in a Model 94, with SR 4759 powder.

I think it has a lot more potential than people give it credit for.

Cheers
seafire

Seafire,
I got 300 of the Hornady 220 gr round nose to try to repaeat your W748 30-30 load.

I got a few pounds of W748 too.

Your posts are costing me money

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clark:
A$$clown has calculated that the brass should be good to between 88 kpsi and 94 kpsi chamber pressure depending on the brass hardness.
.

---

Clark
It looks like you are setting up to find the high pressure limits for .30-30 brass.
A good background article for you is in the March 1952 issue of the American Rifleman. The article entitled "That Old Thutty Thutty" by Phil Sharpe will give you some idea of the high-pressure limits for .30-30 brass. A friend of Sharpe's brought out a Winchester Hi Wall and the two of them proceeded to test the limits of .30-30 brass. Sharpe mentions that at that time he had never seen a .30 caliber rifle that would shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards. This rifle was the first he had shot that would do the deed. Good reading on high-pressure .30-30's even if he does give the exact loads it is still very informative.

Slim,
Anything you can post about that would be interesting.
The NRA does not have old articles on line.
Clark

I have a 340 Savage, and have played with the 125 gr Remington and Sierra bullets, and the 130 gr Hornady Spirepoint with various powders. The best accuracy so far, though, has come with a standard load of IMR-4064 and Remington Corelokt 170 gr RN.

Clark:

I have been playing with SR 4759, and a 220 grain Round Nose, in a Model 94, single loaded of course, but I think you would like that combo a lot.

Not up to the velocity of W 748 load, but I have hit 1850 fps with it and the case extracted quite easily. Bullet was seated to the cannelure.

I sure love that old caliber

cheers
seafire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clark:
Slim,
Anything you can post about that would be interesting.
The NRA does not have old articles on line.
Clark

---

Clark
It took me awhile to get back to this.
Phil Sharpe wrote: That Old 'Thutty Thutty' for the March 1952 issue of the American Rifleman. It is amazing how far the shooting world has come since 1952. In this story his friend Dick Hart built a rifle and brought it our to his range from California specifically to win a bet.

In Sharpe's own words:

"Brethren, it ain't no deer rifle - it's a shooting gun, tipping the scales at 19 pounds 12 ounces with sight. And what a gun. It was designed and built with the sole idea of making a liar out of me. Pfeifer made the barrel which finished 31 inches long with a straight diameter of 1 1/4 inch.

Dick chambered the rifle just tight enough that some factory brass has to be squeezed a little to make the action close.

Now me, I've been shooting the past 35 years, and I've handled five, maybe six different guns. I never saw a half-inch group shot with a .30 caliber anything and I have never seen anyone who will swear brazenly that he has.

We chronographed all loads with my Potter chronograph as we shot for groups.

Groups ran from 5/8 inch to 3/4 inch as we changed powders, charges, and bullet makes and weights.

Several groups ran a half-inch horizontal by a half-inch vertical - but that won't make a half-inch group.

We souped up loads because the gun was built for it. We even used a case full to within 1/8 inch of the mouth of powder after tapping to settle and then compressed the charge in seating the bullet. Pressures were high, but we had no case troubles, no sticking, not a blown or leaky primer.

The thing that surprised me most was the Speer 110-grain spire point bullet. I never had much use for the light bullets in, 30 caliber, yet we shot some of these with various powders and charges into several groups 5/8 inch, including a couple of 9/16 inch. One group made four into 1/4 inch and one out for 5/8 inch.

Against my better judgement we played with one hot load of 2400 powder. It consistently went into 3/4 inch or under. We kept stepping the load up and group size stayed small or smaller. Finally we got to a danger load which must have hit better than 60,000 pounds pressure. There wasn't a primer leak, but the cases, under magnification, showed signs of strain, and those five were scrapped. But it shot into 9/16 inch!

Everything shot well. In 35 years I have never seen any rifle, in any caliber, which liked all powders and bullets and primers so well.

We shot hundreds of rounds and with the single exception all stayed within 1 1/4 inches, even when we called them out. We both made numerous 9/16-inch groups, but that goal of a half inch was not reached.

I wouldn’t tell Dick, but I am convinced that the old .30-30 cartridge can be made to shoot in the properly built gun. For those who have such a gun, loading data is supplied herewith. Our top loads are not included - and these were considered safe in a good gun.

But I've seen a .30 caliber which will really shoot - and it had to be a 'thutty - thutty.'"


Interesting how we look at things a little differently today. Sharpe considered his highest pressure loads "safe in a good gun". This meant the case was not likely to fail on the first firing in the closely chambered Hi-Wall.

Sharpe used Hercules 2400 with the 150-grain Speer bullet. 23.0 grains giving him 2272fps. 24.0 grains giving him 2301fps. 25.0 grains giving 2370fps. Wow,

Sharpe used IMR 3031 with the 180 ABC and Speer bullets. 32.0 grains giving him 2253fps. His maximum load of 36.0 grains giving 2495fps with the ABC bullet and 2557fps with the Speer bullet.

Interestingly the Frankfort Arsenal M1 boat tail bullet gave him 2558fps ahead of 36.0 grains of IMR 3031.
I have a Winchester M-94AE and a Marlin 336 chambered for .30-30 Improved. These two 20" barreled rifles will just exceed 2400fps with the Sierra 170-grain flat nose bullet ahead of 38.0 grains of Hodgdon Varget. This is a maximum load in my estimation although it does shoot well in the heat of summer.

Sharpe used surplus 4895 powder with the 180 grain Speer bullet. Starting at 30.0 grains he got 2056fps. His top listed load was 36.0 grains which pushed the ABC 180 grain bullet 2420 fps.

My .30-30 Improved Winchester will push a 170-grain Sierra to 2384fps using 38.0 grains of Hodgdon 4895.

Sharpe also used IMR 4198 with the 150-grain Speer bullet. He only listed one load, 31.0 grains giving him 2557fps. That was a pretty hot load.

I will be watching for your follow up posts on the .30-30.

Slim,
Thanks for typing that.
Does the closed quote end on
But I've seen a .30 caliber which will really shoot - and it had to be a 'thutty - thutty.'?

Clark,
Yes, I went back and put a close at thutty thutty.

It is interesting what a well breched rifle will do.

It sure is nice to have a great selection of modern powders!

I had a Savage Mod. 219 break open single shot for years in 30-30, I shot it a lot with Sierra and Speer spitzers. I used std. book loadings for it..mounted a Lyman Alaskan scope on it and cut the barrel to 20 then 18 inches on it, it was handy...I shot quite a number of Mule deer and whittail and one bear with it in Mexico, finally sold it for $20.00 and half a toe sack full of quail, to a Mexican who had to have it..That was a cheap price for it even in those days but he was a good friend and needed a gun to feed the kids and keep the bandits from the door..I think I paid $35. for it and $10 for the scope. I have been looking for another mod 219 in 25-20 for years, but miss them by a hair every time I find one...

10" Contender with 130gr SP's Was my wood-walking gun ...until the Blackhawk 45 Colt settled in. Fine piece 30-30, but a 30 and 35 Herrett have squeezed it for function. Now among trade bait stock for something I can't live without yet to be determined.

seafire/B17G,

Thank you for your interest. Because of the higher pressures that the loads I am using generate, I would not want to publish it due to liability. The bullets I am using are Lyman's 311299 (208 gr.) and a 301620 (225 gr.).

I have also fired some 252 gr. (yes...252 gr.)cast bullets (my mold design) in my 788 .30-30's and achieved 2,010 f.p.s. with no problem whatsoever. It definitely recoils with this load!

Slim,
THANK YOU for the info regarding Phil Sharpe and the .30-30. Interesting! 2,557 f.p.s. with a 180 gr..... now that's something!

About 20 years ago when I was shooting NRA High Power Rifle Silhouette with my 788 .30-30 with jacketed bullets (I use cast bullets now) I used the 168gr. Hornady match bullet with a healthy dose of 748 for the 500 meter rams. Velocity was 2540 f.p.s. and accuracy was first rate. I neck sized all my brass and the cartridges went right back into the gun.

GUNS & AMMO May 1961 - NEW LOOK AT THE .30-30
Possibly inspired by Phil Sharpes work, Robert Hutton, Technical editor wrote this article.

He used 4 different rifles, one of which was a heavy barreled bolt action rifle. With 110 gr. bullets, he reached almost 3,300 f.p.s. His most accurate load used the 168 gr. Sierra International bullet and he reported several 1/4" (yes...1/4") 5 shot groups. He said that they are the tightest .30 caliber groups he had ever seen (1961).

Long live the .30-30!

w30wcf

Jack,
i have that Hutton article! One of the rifles was a Savage 340 with Weaver sidemount scope. It is a very good article. Wiley Clapp tried to do a similar article for G&A a few years ago. G&A has dumbed down quite a bit but this was also a good article. I think it was titled "Modernizing the .30-30. A few pressure tested loads and a picture of a remarkable target. Wiley could write if the magazine would let him.

W30wcf:

I own a 1898 Krag in of course 30/40. I look at as a big 30/30 case, the way they look. It is bolt action, but with those 168 grain match bullets at 200 yds with open peep sites, I have done 2.5 to 3 inch groups lots of times.

Not bad for a 107 yr old barrel, and a shooter that is as blind as if he was a 107 yrs old!

There is a lot of satisfaction in an old rifle, and old cartridge that are accurate, is there?!

Cheers
seafire