Hi, I have reloaded shotgun and pistol ammunition for years and a little 30-30 ammunition but now I have a Remngton 700 in 30-06 that I'll use for whitetail deer, mule deer, black bear, etc.

I hear the 165 grain is the most accurate so I am planning on using that weight. I would probably use a 150 gr if accuracy was as good.

I have thought about the Lee Deluxe and I'll start with full length resizing and then try neck resizing. Do both these dies hold the bullets tight enough? I called Lee and they spoke about using the factory crimp. For those that don't use this factory crimp- have you experienced any trouble with bullet movement from rounds in the magazine?

I am open to loads, components, etc. Any recommendations of a good starting load?

And....what about case neck trimming- is it necessary? Is it more for benchrest shooters or wildcatters?

Thanks.

Welcome to AR

All 30.06 rifles will vary and each may prefer a bullet weight.

I think the 2 most common weights are the 150 and 180, with the latter probably being the overall favorite and most popular.

I prefer the 168 Barnes TSX for deer/bear with a mild charge, 55.0 grains of H4350. I think the 165 class bullet is a well balanced weight for your purposes.

In terms of case neck "trimming," the answer is yes, however, I'm a little inclined to believe that you may be wondering about case neck "turning."

Trimming is abolutely necessary if the brass is too long, period. However, case neck turning for concentricity is optional.

It is my opinion that IMR4350, IMR4064, H4350 are the top 3 powders for the 30.06 with 150 to 180 grain wt. bullets. However, in some rifles, including my own, Re22 is an exceptional powder for the 180 weight bullet.

I personally do not use, nor care for Lee products in general, but many use their products with success. I prefer Dillon, RCBS, Redding, Forster, and Sinclair, with Redding brand products dominating my load area.

quote:

Originally posted by red owl:
I have a Remngton 700 in 30-06 that I'll use for whitetail deer, mule deer, black bear, etc.
you didn't include elk or moose

I hear the 165 grain is the most accurate not necessarily true so I am planning on using that weight. I would probably use a 150 gr if accuracy was as good. 150 is a good choice for deer and pronghorns

I have thought about the Lee Deluxe and I'll start with full length resizing and then try neck resizing. get a Lee FL sizig die set first.....thenecksizing later after you're well versed in the loads you want to shoot Do both these dies hold the bullets tight enough? Yes, crimping is optional andnot at all necessary I called Lee and they spoke about using the factory crimp. For those that don't use this factory crimp- have you experienced any trouble with bullet movement from rounds in the magazine?

I am open to loads, components, etc. Any recommendations of a good starting load?

And....what about case neck trimming- is it necessary? Is it more for benchrest shooters or wildcatters?

Thanks.

Doc's post is a good one.....well done Doc!

May I add the following powders to the list....
RL-22, H-414, H-4831-SC

If you wanted to add moose and elk to the list of targets then a 180 grain bullet is probably going to suit you better.

The 150 grain bullets in the 30-06 do quite well for the smaller game like deer.

In the FWIW department, the -06 has a generous case neck and really doesn't need a crimp. I think Lee is just trying to make a sale, besides I don't much like their equipment anyway.

The venerable -06 is one of the few cartridges in existence that does well with a wide spread of bullet weights. I base my choices on two criteria: animal weight; shot distance. 150s and 165s are a good choice out on the prairie, and if in doubt, use 180s on everything. The 180 grain bullet at 2700+f/s gives up little in trajectory and has more "punch" at the receiving end, and therein lies its popularity.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
Welcome to AR

All 30.06 rifles will vary and each may prefer a bullet weight.

I think the 2 most common weights are the 150 and 180, with the latter probably being the overall favorite and most popular.

I prefer the 168 Barnes TSX for deer/bear with a mild charge, 55.0 grains of H4350. I think the 165 class bullet is a well balanced weight for your purposes.

In terms of case neck "trimming," the answer is yes, however, I'm a little inclined to believe that you may be wondering about case neck "turning."

Trimming is abolutely necessary if the brass is too long, period. However, case neck turning for concentricity is optional.

It is my opinion that IMR4350, IMR4064, H4350 are the top 3 powders for the 30.06 with 150 to 180 grain wt. bullets. However, in some rifles, including my own, Re22 is an exceptional powder for the 180 weight bullet.

I personally do not use, nor care for Lee products in general, but many use their products with success. I prefer Dillon, RCBS, Redding, Forster, and Sinclair, with Redding brand products dominating my load area.

Absolutely correct. Lees equipment is totally second rate and not capable of producing quality ammo. I know, I've been using it now for 40+ years.

Please box up all your Lee equipment and send it to me and I will insure it's proper disposal.

By the way, you will find a plethora of loading info on the '06, from wussy to scorchers. Due to the litigious society. There are a lot of OLD '06's out there that were not meant to shoot the hotter renditions.

If you tend to experiment be careful and make sure your firearm is capable of using what you are feeding. Seek professional advice. The days of judging a hot load by the criteria of having to beat the bolt open with your boot are over, and scratching your chin and saying "I better back off a grain" on that one.

Use every piece of equipment you can lay your hands on, chronographs etc. It pays in the long run. Study the load manuals, religiously and get as many of them as you can. The more the merrier.

Best wishes, Bill

Red owl, welcome!

1. Lee precision makes loading dies that are just fine for your purposes. But stick to FL resizing. Neck sizing is for target or varmint loads. I loaded 150gr bullets in my '06 for decades, and they killed everything I aimed at. No moose, however. A model 760 pump gun for these Pennsylvania woods.

2. Every gun's barrel is different. Experiment with what it likes: 150, 165, 180 grain bullets. The 101 year old '06 is so versatile, just about any powder works well. I use WW760(same as H414) because it meters well through my Dillon's powder measure.
I never crimped any load; mainly because the bullets I used at the time did not have a cannelure. The '06 does have a long neck and it provides plenty of neck tension. Although for about $10, the Lee factory crimp die is a bargain and works well. I use it for larger calibers and with lead bullets.

3. I would say case length trimming would need done about every 3 or 4 reloads if you're pushing the power at book max. Less often for more moderate loads. Max case length for the '06 needs checked just as often as the similarly bottle-necked 30-30Win. Checking is a definite necessity for everyone, not just target shooters.

4. Case neck 'turning' is for target shooters--either paper or varmints--to get the 'nth' degree of accuracy. Forget about it for big game hunting loads. It's not needed.

In my experience there isn't a whole lot of difference in velocity between the 150's and the 165's in a 30-06.

Sometimes there is a negative difference....

With my favorite propellant, RL22 the depending on which of my two current 30-06's you are talking about the 165's are either the same speed or FASTER than 150's from that particular rifle.

So that being said go ahead and load the 165's.
It's not like there is a price difference or that the 165's won't work on slightly smaller animals, but the 165's arguably will work better if you get a chance against elk without starting over.

If there is anything in north america that you can't kill with a 165gr bullet out of a 30-06 then using a heavier bullet from that rifle won't help. and lighter bullets don't go enough faster to be worth bothering with.

My personal recommendation for a 30-06 is a 165gr Accubond and as much RL22 as you can fit into the case.
(typically this is 62-64grains)

This is more than adequate for anything with antlers or horns in North America.

and the only North america animals I wouldn't go seeking with such a rifle and load are the big bears, brown or white.

AD

How do you conclude this:

quote:

Originally posted by STINGER:
Absolutely correct. Lees equipment is totally second rate and not capable of producing quality ammo.

from this?

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
I personally do not use, nor care for Lee products in general, but many use their products with success.

If you found my post offensive, I can't help that. But don't put words in my mouth.

Unless you're just teasing.

Try H414 or H4350. I use Win brass, Win Lg Primers, and 165 Hornady BTSP. The deer I shoot don't make it more that 25 yards and leaves a nice blood trail without damaging all the meat. I like the H414 it has given me the best results in my rifle with both 165 and 180 grain bullet weights. My rifle hates 150 grain bullets. Esox357.

i have loaded the 30-06 for many years. and i have found it hard to beat 4064. i load 52 grs of IMR 4064. wlr primer, 150 sierra spbt. shot over croney at 2940 fps. and .750 in. groups at 100 meters. very accurate with a stock rifle



22 in barrel shot over croney at 2940 and .750 in. groups at 100 meters

You've gotten some really good advice so far. One of the beauties of the 06 is the wide range of bullet weights and types, and I think you need to decide what you are wanting the gun to do and pick the appropriate bullet before scratching your head too much more on loading it. Picking the bullet may also narrow your powder choice a bit.

Are you shooting deer and antelope and the like, perhaps at longer ranges? Will you be going for elk or moose? Short or long range? Do you want it to be ready for most everything?

I am loading mine with a 168 Barnes TSX on a max charge of RL19, and I couldn't be happier with it. If it needs doing with an 06, I would do it with this load. It's my can't decide what to grab, so I'll bring it gun.

On the other hand, if you plan on shooting only deer, antelopes, and coyotes, you may not want to spend the $$$ for a premium bullet and may want a touch more velocity, so get a 150 gr cup and core.

If you are planning a moose hunt, then you may be well advised to look at 180 gr premium or 220 gr roundnose.

You list several things in your post, but whitetail and black bear are not quite the same. If you are considering using it for bigger critters, then I would suggest a heavier or premium bullet.

LWD

Thanks to all

I have been reloading for 20 some odd years, and I have never felt the need to trim a case.
i don't even know what will happen if I don't.
I don't keep track of how many times a case has been fired. But when loading for a hunt I use once fired brass.
Somebody please tell me why I should trim my brass ?
...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by red owl:
Hi, I have reloaded shotgun and pistol ammunition for years and a little 30-30 ammunition but now I have a Remngton 700 in 30-06 that I'll use for whitetail deer, mule deer, black bear, etc.

I hear the 165 grain is the most accurate so I am planning on using that weight. I would probably use a 150 gr if accuracy was as good.

I have thought about the Lee Deluxe and I'll start with full length resizing and then try neck resizing. Do both these dies hold the bullets tight enough? I called Lee and they spoke about using the factory crimp. For those that don't use this factory crimp- have you experienced any trouble with bullet movement from rounds in the magazine?

I am open to loads, components, etc. Any recommendations of a good starting load?

And....what about case neck trimming- is it necessary? Is it more for benchrest shooters or wildcatters?

Thanks.

No doubt in my mind, 50grs RE15 with some 165SSTs will be a very excellent load for ya, I usually use 210M primers and Rem. brass, but that shouldnt matter too much. Jay

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
I have been reloading for 20 some odd years, and I have never felt the need to trim a case.
i don't even know what will happen if I don't.
I don't keep track of how many times a case has been fired. But when loading for a hunt I use once fired brass.
Somebody please tell me why I should trim my brass ?
...tj3006

Well for one, if the case gets too long, the mouth will crimp in on the bullet when chambered and your pressures will rise. If the case never ever gets too long, dont trim.

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
I have been reloading for 20 some odd years, and I have never felt the need to trim a case.
i don't even know what will happen if I don't.
I don't keep track of how many times a case has been fired. But when loading for a hunt I use once fired brass.
Somebody please tell me why I should trim my brass ?
...tj3006

The only way to answer this question is with another question: -do you understand the difference between trimming cases to length and neck turning?
Assuming the answer is yes, I'll proceed. All cases have a maximum length, and when that length is exceeded problems occur when the neck becomes so long that it butts against the shoulder at the forward edge of the chamber. Given that the camming force exerted by a rifle's bolt is quite powerful, and that the case length(the neck length in particular) is already at its maximum, that extra metal has to go somewhere. With the shoulder holding it back and the bolt forcing it forward, there is only one thing left for it to do -THICKEN-. Essentially what you've created is a vice that doesn't want to let the bullet go, and when a cartridge is fired under such conditions pressures soar! If this pressure is great enough, the case neck can't let go and the gasses simply take another route out -one which is usually disastrous.

well said buckshot! i always enjoy your posts,
thomas j many good reloading manuals go threw reloading step by step.
red owl, with good reloads your 700 will surely tell you what it likes. congrats on a fine purchase. try and match your bullet to the game hunted.try the 125 gr. spitzers through the 220 rns. you''ll always get good info here !
regards

Yes one of the "beauty"points of the 30-06 is the big bullet selection,but to me even more beautiful is the fact the 150 grain bullets do it all and I dont have to be re-adjusting my scope and wondering which bullet it is adjusted for now. This includes moose. Now Ive been told many times the 150 is too light for moose/elk, often times by someone that uses a .270 with 130 grainers--go figure. 4064 has been my powder of choice.

Yes...get the Deluxe Die Set.And get the Factory Crimp Die.The FL sizing die will hold the bullet with sufficient neck tension.

You will find when using the Collet Die that it is difficult to get consistent neck tension from case to case.You can overcome all this by using the crimp die.The collet die and the factory crimp die are just perfect when used together this way.You dont have to go wild with it...just snug up the bullet nicely.Even if the bullet doesn`t have a crimp groove.That way you can hunt with neck sized ammo that will stand up to a little rough treatment.

Also you will find when you full length size you just about have to trim,chamfer,and deburr to maintain uniformity.

I have found that after FL sizing,then fireforming,then necksizing and trimming that the brass is good as it`s gonna get.And will stay that way for a long time.Then you can experiment with seating depth.

Hi guys,
I reload my 30'06 from about 10 years with various bullets. Like every barrel this prefer some bullets and don't loves some other. I have the better accuracy results with IMR 4064 powder and 168g Sierra Match: 1.2 inch at 200 yards
The better hunting load I have with the combination of Vihtavuory N540 and Sierra Pro Hunter 150g (vel. 2960 fps in 22" barrel), in this case 1.5 inch at 200 yards.
I have used diferent dies, but Lee Collet series give me best quality...
Faina

Basically, there is no such thihg as the "most accurate bullet". Any one of a given variety of different bullet weights and shapes may prove to be the most accurate bullet - for your individual rifle!! Generally, there are several nice 150, 165, 180, or 200-grain bullets you can use in a .30/'06 that are very accurate. You need to test some to find out which one(s) will work best for your rifle.

To do this, you need to start by selecting a bullet that has the performance characteristics most suited to your planned uses. IF you plan to shoot deer in the U.S. or Canada, a 150 to 165-grain bullet will probably prove to be the most useful. For deer, you do not need to use a premium bullet like the Nosler Partition, Accubond, Trophy Bonded, etc. But you CAN, if you want. I find that the Sierra Game King bullets are all one needs to kill all sizes of deer quite effectively. If you plan to shoot elk and moose as well as deer, choose a 165 or 180-grain bullet, and probably a premium design as well-Nosler Partition, Accubond, etc. etc. for this application.

Once you've chosen a good bullet (most of the production bullets made in this country today are capable of excellent accuracy-once you've developed an accurate POWDER LOAD to use with them!

Developing this load is the next step. It's up to you to CREATE the accuracy load FOR YOUR RIFLE, using the bullet you chose.

Speaking of Lee factory crimp: many people who use that die swear that the crimping step makes their ammo shoot more accurately. It might, I don't know because I've never made a comparison of crimped vs uncrimped ammo. But the crimp IS NOT NEEDED to keep the bullets in place. ALL DECENT DIES will do this with all U.S. standard makes of brass. I proved this to my own satisfaction with a Winchester Model 71 chambered for .450 Alaskan. I removed the neck expander button from the sizing die, and used a .45 ACP plug (.450") to bell the case mouths so I could start a bullet. I loaded up with 64 grains of IMR 4064 in each case with a Speer 400-grain bullet seated with nothing but neck tensioin holding the bullets in place. I then loaded four of them into the magazine, put one in the chamber, and then fired the rifle five times, single-loading the chamber between shots with those same 4 rounds in the magazine. After the five shots, I shucked the four rounds out and measdured the O/A length of each one. No change at all. They say that ammo MUST BE CRIMPED for use in a tubular-magazine lever action rifle. NO IT DOESN'T!!

(The .30/30 causes more problems in this regard than other cartridges do because the cases are thin and weak!! So perhaps your apprehension is based on experience loading the .30/30??)

I have Lee, Redding, and RCBS dies.....Lee is the cheapest, but not unuseable by any stretch.

I am a fan of the Lee factory crimp die, and use it any time I want to crimp rounds.....I find it much more effective than the roll crimp that FL resizing dies will do and not trim length sensitive. The Lee Collet die is useful as well for neck-sizing without lube.

You will figure out what you like in time. The one I would not recommend initially is the RCBS X-die....to use it properly might be a bigger pain than you want at first.

Cheers,

Dan

When I was much younger and only had one rifle to hunt big game with it was a 30-06. I fooled around with many bullet weights but ended up using the 180 grain Speer spitzer Hotcor on everything. I used H4831 and IMR 4350 worked up to maximum in my rifle and had no problems. It shot plenty flat enough. My largest game at the time was elk and in the beginning I used the 150 grain Speer spitzer on deer and antelope but tired of having to resight my rifle for my elk load after deer season. A little too windy that time of year.

If elk are not in your mix, use any good 165gr bullet, core lokt, hot core, etc, you do NOT need any kind of boutique bullet, and 4350. either IMR or H. Trim the cases to a uniform length and then trim only when they get close to being too long. Neck turning is a waste of time for a hunting round.
I've shot a ton of 30-06 bullets and the next one I crimp will be the first one. I don't think its needed but that's your call. Its another bit of time that could be spent hunting or shooting.

I have found the 165 gr. bullets very good in the 30-06. I have had excellent with the Nosler, but I prefer the 165 in my .308..

My 06 dotes on the 180 gr. bullets and I also like the way the the 180s kill game a little better and you will have less blood shot meat..I like that..

I have shot the 180 PP Nosler and the Woodleigh PP for years now in my 06 and the 200 gr. same in my 300 H&H..I doubt that I will ever change that combo.. If it ain't broke don't fix it is my moto....

I have a case trimmer, have had it for years.
I decided to do an experimant and see if trimming cases to all more or less the same lenth, say within .005 would increase my accuracy.
But I honestly never trimmed a single case untill i did this experiment , and never had a problem like described above.
I load fairly hot loads for the most part and I bet I shoot somewhare beetween 800 and 1200 rounds of reloaed ammo a year.
Never blown a primer and seldome see a sign of excessive preasure.
I am not arguing with anybody here just relating my experiance.
Don't forget , there ar all sorts of gagets out there that the people selling them would love you to think you need...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
I have a case trimmer, have had it for years.
I decided to do an experimant and see if trimming cases to all more or less the same lenth, say within .005 would increase my accuracy.
But I honestly never trimmed a single case untill i did this experiment , and never had a problem like described above.
I load fairly hot loads for the most part and I bet I shoot somewhare beetween 800 and 1200 rounds of reloaed ammo a year.
Never blown a primer and seldome see a sign of excessive preasure.
I am not arguing with anybody here just relating my experiance.
Don't forget , there ar all sorts of gagets out there that the people selling them would love you to think you need...tj3006

It is an unquestioned fact that "too long" cases can escalate pressures dramatically....the question is just how long is too long.....as the chambers may be reamed such that a case 2.494 is all that the chamber will take....then another rifle may have a chamber sufficient to take a 2.540 long case (as in .270 length).

It's recommended to keep the cases .010 under nominal case length.....I go .030!

quote:

Don't forget , there ar all sorts of gagets out there that the people selling them would love you to think you need...tj3006

This is the gospel truth!!!!! such things as primer pocket uniformers, flash hole deburrers, neck turners, flash hole uniformers.....and more!

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
I have a case trimmer, have had it for years.
I decided to do an experimant and see if trimming cases to all more or less the same lenth, say within .005 would increase my accuracy.
But I honestly never trimmed a single case untill i did this experiment , and never had a problem like described above.
I load fairly hot loads for the most part and I bet I shoot somewhare beetween 800 and 1200 rounds of reloaed ammo a year.
Never blown a primer and seldome see a sign of excessive preasure.

I'm glad the gods were smiling on you. The experiment you describe works wonders on revolver cartridges (uniform length), but isn't horribly critical on rifles as you've seen. .010" difference on the case neck matters little to a rifle bullet, but change the bullet/land relationship and you'll see the results on paper.
I push my -06 hard too, and I have to trim cases about every fourth or fifth reload. Not only do cases stretch when fired, they stretch when f/l sized too.

It went the other way for me. I developed a good, accurate load for my '06 using a 165gr core lokt bullet and killed a whole lot of WT deer with it. Only after I had used it for several years did I get a chance to Chrony it. It was barely creeping along at under 2800 fps. I was amazed that it could even kill a deer. I've now used that load east and west and its still creeping and its still killing so the couple of hundred fps I'd get from hot rodding it don't make a difference to me.