People are always talking about, this state requires this big of a caliber minimum for hunting this kind of animal...or it needs this many ft lbs of energy at 100 yds...

Does anyone know of anyone who has actually received a citation for not being in compliance with these "laws"???

In all of my hunting experiences, I never have... I have had DNR or Fish & Wildlife guys want to see my license, or permit.. , I have even seen local cops out riding around on Forest Service Roads and trying to hand out tickets for someone not wearing a seat belt to do 20 mphs, down a forest service road...

however, I have never seen or know of anyone who has ever been giving a citation for "not having enough gun"....

Back 25 years or so ago a buddy of mine drew an elk tag for a "hunt" up in Del Norte. It wasn't really a hunt, it was a F&G administered "cull shoot". You know, one of those "OK, shoot that one but not that one" type of "hunts". Anyway he shows up to the check in, Fish Cop checks his rifle, says he can't use it because it didn't meet the caliber requirement for the "hunt". It was a 270 and the minimum was 30 cal. He wound up borrowing a 30-30 from another guy and shot an elk. Took 2 shots and we all know that 1 from the 270 probably would have worked just fine. Go figure.

Just playing Devils advocate here, but would either of you recommend or use a 224 caliber on elk?

quote:

Does anyone know of anyone who has actually received a citation for not being in compliance with these "laws"???

NO....and further I know of no one even checked to see if his gun was legal.

Crazyhorse,

I hear a 70 gr bullet from a 220 swift is mean elk medicine

I've had animals and licenses checked numerous times but I've never been asked to show my gun or ammunition, even in steel shot only shotgun areas.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Just playing Devils advocate here, but would either of you recommend or use a 224 caliber on elk?

I wouldn't recommend it, but if it was legal, and if I had an elk tag, and somehow ran into an elk armed only with a 224, and the range was right, and I was confident I could make the shot, I sure as shit would use it. Please note there's "ifs" and "ands" in that statement.

RE lead shot in waterfowl areas, up here (Humboldt) it's the first thing they check for after your license.

/

You guys wouldn't believe some of the crap I heard that happened during Ohio's deer gun season.

Some new cocky game cop was writing citations left and right in Adams county. One individual that I know of was given a citation because he did not have a PEN on him. The warden argued that if the hunter had shot a deer, he'd have no way of filling out his temporary tag. It didn't matter that this guy's dad was with him and had a fanny pack with 4 pens in it.

What an ASS.

Proffessional Roo shooters have to qualify before they can buy tags for either meat or hides. There is an accuracy test as well as certain knowledge tests and the minimum cartridge is a 222 with a 55 gn sp or hp projectile driven @ 2500 fps IIRC, animals must be head shot. AFAIK these are the only government regs for fauna. Deer in Oz are feral.

Ohio is full of that type. I knew one that gave his cousin a ticket for lighting a deer's eyes when he was fox hunting. They happened to walk over a hill into his calling area. He also gave a man a ticket for lighting a deers eyes with his car to show the car full of kids the deer. He didn't do anything but go a little straighter on a curve in the road for a second. You have to have the correct time of the sunrise to start hunting too. The entire sun can be above the horizon but you must go by the posted sunrise for that day. If you shoot 2 minutes early you will get a ticket. Most of my clocks and watches can't keep that close a time! How would anyone know if the wardens watch was accurate? Or if he even had the sunrise time himself?

yeah i know one guy up in the north country of ny that got a ticket for too small a rifle.He probally wasn't too curtious to the game warden either though

Seafire/B17G: I have been "caliber checked" in Wyoming while Deer and Antelope Hunting there.
I was a non-resident Hunter there.
To tell the truth I wish there were more Game Wardens out there! I have seen some so called "hunters" do some terrible shit!
I have been Big Game and Varmint Hunting all over the west and sometimes in three and four states each year, and knock on wood, I have as yet to receive any type of citation!
That is saying something because there have been a couple of times when I was just "ignorantly" yet unintentionally breaking some little known rule!
I have been stopped (including Game Checks) by the Wardens probably 200 - 300 times in the last 45+ years of Hunting and Varminting!
I find them to be for the most part quite polite, professional and affiable!
I will say this, over the last 5 years here in the state of Montana the Wardens are quick to (zealously) interogate me and my "homies" (friends from out of state!) regarding ME being a "GUIDE" - or getting paid by them for my "guiding"! To some people this might be cause for "ego harm" and hard feelings - I say screw that! The Wardens have a tough job and its tough when dealing with the public to leave "everyone smiling"!
I am not a guide and never accept money from my friends for sharing a Hunt with them!
The Wardens DO arrest several people every year for unlicensed "guiding" here in Montana! Including one cretin from Missouri who has been "guiding" illegally here in Montana for several years. This cretin was not just going Hunting with friends and accepting a little moola - he was advertising and collecting big money for taking out of state Hunters out POACHING! The hunters were intentionally Hunting game without tags and paying this fellow. Last I heard they had arrested 22 individuals and confiscated more heads of game (taxidermied!) than that. This investigation is ongoing.
Yeah, I think the sport of Big Game Hunting would benefit if more Game Wardens were in the field!
Just this week here in Montana the Wardens arrested 7 local "youths" for POACHING 25 Whitetail Deer - after the season was closed!
The youths were all shooting 22 rimfires to "harvest" their bounty!

And yes it is legal to Hunt Big Game with ANY caliber or cartridge here in Montana!
I do know a rancher who routinely kills his Elk with a 22-250!
Headshoots'em.
No I don't recommend the 22 centerfires for Elk.
Deer, yes, under some constraints.
Again "knock on wood"!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by VarmintGuy:
To tell the truth I wish there were more Game Wardens out there!

I have been stopped (including Game Checks) by the Wardens probably 200 - 300 times in the last 45+ years of Hunting and Varminting!

I would like to see more in canada I'v been stoped only 4 times in 40 years. No wounder pochers rule the woods up here!

I was caliber checked in Pa. in 1980. I have also been checked for a "plugged" magazine in Ohio when deer hunting. 3 rounds allowed in shotgun and it must be plugged to hold only 3.

The Colorado DOW has checked me 3 times. The only time I was caliber checked was during antelope season back in the 70s.

The DOW officer was very interested in my rifle that day because it was the only Ruger No 1 he had checked and wanted to see how the action worked. Of course the rifle passed the caliber check because it was a 7mm Rem Mag.

Georgia used to have a minimum standard but decided it was junk science.

Now they only require that it be a centerfire .224 or larger.

So I guess we can hunt with a .25 ACP.

quote:

So I guess we can hunt with a .25 ACP.

Yes...true...but who does?????

Wisconsin also has a centerfire only rule.....but exempted the .17 centerfires....

Absolutely no one I've ever hunted with ever uses an inappropriate round.....the law is not enforced so let the hunter use anything they want.....

Most are still using 270, 30-06, 308, 7-08, 260, 243, 6mm, 257, etc etc...

The idea of regulated cartridges is really old and unneeded.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
People are always talking about, this state requires this big of a caliber minimum for hunting this kind of animal...or it needs this many ft lbs of energy at 100 yds...

Does anyone know of anyone who has actually received a citation for not being in compliance with these "laws"???
however, I have never seen or know of anyone who has ever been giving a citation for "not having enough gun"....

John, is there a hidden agenda in this thread? roger

Not really Roger..
some one was speaking about minimum caliber restrictions of 25 caliber or so, on another thread... and it got me to thinking..

I have seen plenty of game wardens out there.. and if you are not an ass to them, they are normally pretty decent guys... the only real butthead I have ever dealt with was in Wisconsin... and he was sure searching to write up everyone he encountered, and even had his brother in law and a buddy out with him for "witnesses"....

I passed his muster, but he harassed and wrote up a 20 yr old kid, son of one of the guys in our party " for not wearing orange on his head"... and he did that, after the kid took off his orange hat in front of the game warden because he was hot after walking back out of the woods...

I got pretty pissed last season, but didn't get written up, being able to be "friendly" to the local cop, who was out trying to hand out tickets for people not wearing seat belts on a forest service road, miles out in the middle of nowhere...of course I am pretty decent at talking my way out of citations most of the time..

I had stopped when I saw his vehicle coming and when he stopped he asked me why I wasn't wearing it.. I told him I had just stopped to turn around and get something from behind the passenger seat...

Then I asked him about him being so far out of town, and he said they were out looking for seat belt violators, so I told him thanks.. it was good that guys like him were out looking out for the public's safey...

He checked my license and went on his way....

This was the third or fourth time I had seen local cops doing that..doing seat belt checks...

our deer season is 5 weeks... if you can pass up on the first week out.. after that you hardly ever see a cop...or F& W ranger...

besides deer or elk, you can 'Poach' all the coyotes, bear or cougar you really want.. if you can find them...they don't seem to care...

deer and elk, you must buy a license before the season starts... bear, you can buy those every day the season is open...which is like 5 months in the fall. and 2 or 3 in the spring...

Tennessee changed their minimum caliber requirement in 2006. It changed from a 6mm centerfire to any centerfire. I hunt in Georgia for the most part & theirs is 22 centerfire. I have never been checked for the caliber of my rifle or even for my license while deer hunting. I belive that I have been checked while rabbit hunting.
TN & GA both have a big campaign for wearing seatbelts in truck right now, so I would expect to be pulled over for that right now no matter where I was.

This 1000ft/pounds of energy guideline was started by The writer Elmer Keith,it was his opinion on that was the least amount of power for hunting big game,and it progressed into law in some states. In the state of confusion i live in,it only has to be a centerfire cartridge for deer in rifle. And .357 or bigger for pistol in deer,bear,or wild hogs. I have used a 70 gr bullet in my 223 and it works well for deer and hogs.Its a bit small for elk,but will do the job,if your bullet placement is on the button.Some states also have a min of 233 cal for big game.So, the min would be in a production rifle a 243 cal. van

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Just playing Devils advocate here, but would either of you recommend or use a 224 caliber on elk?

Hell no!!!! or anything loaded with a trashking...I mean Matchking!

Had the ODFW (Oregon Dept. Fish & Wildlife) check licenses, tags, and gear for fishing on the Deschutes.

It's single hook, barbless, catch/release.

.25 ACP for Elk? So is that a quartering shot or straight on?

quote:

Originally posted by POP:
....... use a 224 caliber on elk?

Hell no!!!! or anything loaded with a trashking...I mean Matchking!

We have a fellow that works on one of our farms that used a 22-250 with 55 gr. sp's on elk for five years. Five one shot kills. Then he moved up to a "big gun". A 25-06. The first spike he shot with it took three rounds through the lungs before he knew enough to fall over dead. Go figger. FWIW, Dutch.

minnesota has a minimum caliber(.23) and minimum case length (I forget,about an inch).

quote:

Originally posted by jb:
minnesota has a minimum caliber(.23) and minimum case length (I forget,about an inch).

I use to hunt both Minnesota and Wisconsin...

I always use to think it was ironic on their stances concerning 22 caliber centerfires and 410 slugs for deerhunting...

Wisconsin made it illegal for use 410s with slugs for deer hunting... stating it was too small.. Minnesota said it was fine and legal...

Wisconsin made 22 caliber centerfires legal for hunting, stating it was just fine... while Minnesota listed it as too small and hence forth illegal to use for deer....

Most of them in Kansas are just pricks, writing tickets for any trivial thing they can dig up.

I guess that is suppose to justify their existence.

I have been plug checked. Had my weapon checked for being loaded, near the road. Been jacked up for coming out too late. Had a boat searched and shot checked duck hunting. Been molested a bunch hunting foxes at night. Read your book with your license, to make sure there are no changes and let the wardens have their fun. I get stopped once or twice a year. Never came close to a ticket. People do not like to be harrased. Harassment is a course of conduct that is ment to purposly alarm and annoy. A law enforcement officer can not HARASS any one in the lawful performance of their dutys. Like anything else, some people take things to extremes. There are dickheads everywhere. They are the ones that the stories get told about. I have had many Wardens give me good leads on farms, and other hunting areas that I did not know that were public. To answer the question, nope never heard of anyone getting cited for too small of a caliber. At the range I wished guys would down size instead of going hugh and strapping a muzzle break to the biggest magnum the gun store had that day. LOL

quote:

Hell no!!!! or anything loaded with a trashking...I mean Matchking!

Now that there's FUNNY!!! True, but funny!

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Most of them in Kansas are just pricks, writing tickets for any trivial thing they can dig up.

I guess that is suppose to justify their existence.

A lot of them must have moved out here. Or ours moved back there.

I have been checked for a plugged shot gun in the early 80's. Since then here in Missouri , for Deer.No more plug rule.Also the shotgun size rule is gone.Formerly 20ga. min.Now 410's are legal.Any centerfire cartridge is now legal. No more than 10 rnd's.and you must use expanding bullets.These changes took efect 3 years ago.I'm not saying these rule changes are nessesarily a good thing . But we dont have to worry about any weapon regulations tickets.


"Did'nt climb to the top of the food chain to become a vegetarian"

Heard some bad stories out of Tennessee. It allegedly is/was .243 legal with some counties having a .25 cal minumum. The counties with the higher minimum supposedly checked hard because there was a confiscation clause. Good moneymaker, whatever they could get for the rifle, plus the fine.

I can't vouch for the story, but I can tell you that when a government finds a way to steal, it will.

quote:

Does anyone know of anyone who has actually received a citation for not being in compliance with these "laws"???

Nope - never heard of anyone being checked for this by a conservation officer, either.... Maybe it happens in Africa.....

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
You guys wouldn't believe some of the crap I heard that happened during Ohio's deer gun season.

Some new cocky game cop was writing citations left and right in Adams county. One individual that I know of was given a citation because he did not have a PEN on him. The warden argued that if the hunter had shot a deer, he'd have no way of filling out his temporary tag. It didn't matter that this guy's dad was with him and had a fanny pack with 4 pens in it.

What an ASS.

I believe I'd go to court on this one! I doubt that, if challenged, the officer could cite the section of the law which requires a hunter to carry a pen! Only AFTER a deer was killed could you charge someone for failure to fill out the tag. (You can write legibly with a softpoint bullet tip!)

quote:

Originally posted by TBEAR99:
yeah i know one guy up in the north country of ny that got a ticket for too small a rifle.He probally wasn't too curtious to the game warden either though

Good story, BUT: there are NO caliber restrictions at all in NY State for big-game hunting for modern centerfire rifles.

Shotguns for deer must be 20 ga. or larger, and ML rifles have to be .44 cal. or larger. handguns must be .35 cal. or larger.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
I was caliber checked in Pa. in 1980. I have also been checked for a "plugged" magazine in Ohio when deer hunting. 3 rounds allowed in shotgun and it must be plugged to hold only 3.

PA has no caliber requirement for deer except for ML's, which must be at least .44 cal. For elk, however, the bullet must be at least .27" and weigh 130 grains. But there were no elk seasons in PA in the 1980's, that just started.....

Personally, I like Alaska's requirement: "Any centerfire rifle, pistol, or shotgun."

If you shoot a Kodiak, and he takes exception to the pisswilly gun you used, it's YOUR PROBLEM!

quote:

Posted 02 January 2007 13:29 Hide Post
Not really Roger..
some one was speaking about minimum caliber restrictions of 25 caliber or so, on another thread... and it got me to thinking..

I have seen plenty of game wardens out there.. and if you are not an ass to them, they are normally pretty decent guys... the only real butthead I have ever dealt with was in Wisconsin... and he was sure searching to write up everyone he encountered, and even had his brother in law and a buddy out with him for "witnesses"....

I passed his muster, but he harassed and wrote up a 20 yr old kid, son of one of the guys in our party " for not wearing orange on his head"... and he did that, after the kid took off his orange hat in front of the game warden because he was hot after walking back out of the woods...

Wisconsin regulations read that "A hat, if worn, must be 50% blaze orange". That warden was a moron.

Fast Ed

quote:

Wisconsin regulations read that "A hat, if worn, must be 50% blaze orange". That warden was a moron.

Ed, I believe the word you were looking for was Asshole.....