I'm thinking about getting a .222, and wonder if I can expect the cartridge's great accuracy if I take the velocity of 45 - 52g bullets down to 2700 f/s or so.

What I'd like to have is either an easier to reload Hornet or a .221 Fireball for which more companies make brass than Remington. I haven't ruled either of those two out, but if I can get lower velocities (for lower noise signature) while not losing too much accuracy, my choice would be pretty simple - the .222.

We're semi-urban around here, and the noise from the 22 Magnum to the 22 Hornet is about as loud as I want to go.

I've had poor luck with Remington brass lately, so I'm leaning against the Fireball, and I don't think I'm patient enough to wring out a Hornet the way it needs to be done - it's just too finicky.

So, does anyone load the .222 down to Hornet velocities?

Jaywalker

A load I have for .223 is 9gr unique with 40gr BT Nosler. Velocity is ~2650fps. This is an extremely accurate load. Now with .222 since case capacity is less I would start around 6 gr and work up. I developed this load for the same reasons you stated. Definitely has reduced noise.

I tried 45gr to 55gr bullets and accuracy just was not as good as 40gr.

Always be extra careful not to double load with the fast powder.

21 gr H335 & a 50 gr vmax or BT

50 gr. balistic tip, 11gr. BlueDot 2550fps. 6 shot 3/8" grp 50 yds.

40gr. Balistic Tip 11gr blue dot 2800 fps. 4 shot 3/8" group, 10 shot 1" group 50 yds. Have had a lot of good results with reduced loads in 222 And 223. 2400, Blue Dot ,680, 4759. The 222 is a CZ 527 light barrel and is barely a MOA rifle with any load.roger

If you have some H110 left, it should work as well. The exact load I have at home but remember posting it here, too.

As stated, Blue Dot gives nearly in "any case" good results with reduced loads. Another option seems to be Vihta's N110.

So, one MOA is possible. Thanks. I don't plan to shoot over 200 yards, so that should serve nicely.

I should have mentioned this will be a "walking around" rifle, likely either a CZ 527, or possibly an Anschutz 1740, with a sporter-weight barrel.

Thanks again.

Jaywalker

I have loaded 14 grains of H4227 behind a 52 grains Sierra Match; very accurate (0,5 MOA) @ 2625 fps. I suggest you start at 12 grains and work up.

I know you are leaning toward the .222, and a Hornet will never be the .222, but if you own a Hornet already, have you considered reaming it out to a "K"? I have an NEF K-Hornet that is phenomenally accurate, even with 55-grain Winchester PSPs, and I have loaded it down to subsonic velocities with the Lyman 225107 for a load that just "clicks", yet goes ito one hole at 25 yards.
The "K" is very easy on brass, is simple to reload, and cases are formed by shooting full power Hornet loads.

Doubtless,

If I had a Hornet (or bought one used, cheap) and was annoyed over its finicky habits, I'd certainly consider "K-"ing it. I don't, though, so since this will be a new purchase, the real choice was between the Fireball and the .222.

Jaywalker

Sorry about hopping in like this!
Anyone tried getting a BX down to, say 2300-2400 fps, in the .222 without the bullets keyholeing? Any bullet weights will do. I think the twist is 1-14.

Although this is not an answer and I am also not a huge fan of Remington brass. I have 500 pcs. of .221 Remington brass that is as good as any I have ever found. Every piece is uniform in length, neck wall thickness and primer pocket. Many different types of Rem. brass I have purchased was not this way at all. But if it is just the brass that would keep you from attaining a .221 I wouldn't let that stop you.

a lot of 222s are 1-14 twist and .223 rifles are normally 1-12 and in the Savage 1-9. This faster twist might be beneficial to slower bullets.....I'd certainly look to the .223 over the .222 unless you plan to rebarrel your .222.

Jaywalker, one of the things you said in the original post was "an easier to reload Hornet". The "K" is just that... Brass lasts forever, and the semi-quiet little round is just as efficient as anything I ever saw. I shoot cast and jacketed both in my NEF, and have a ball with it.
I bought the NEF for $203 and change. I think they are still right around that number... I DID have the chamber reamed, and it ran $35, and I had the trigger "helped", which was another $40. But I ended up with a tack driver for ~$375. I found an old steel-tubed Weaver 3X9 for $75 at a gun show, and the Weaver base and Tasco rings were dirt cheap.
The other neat thing about the NEF is that for $85 you can send the receiver and forend back, and NEF will fit another barrel to the receiver.
It ends up much like the Encore, at a LOT less money...

Sincerely hope you find what you are looking for. I would love to have a .222, but finding one in LH is pretty difficult outside the Rem. 40XB, and I am not financially equipped to spend that for a rifle.

Doubless,

Thanks, I think that sounds pretty useful. Six months ago I probably would have jumped on it as a "best buy." Right now, however, I'm leaning towards highly polished bluing and smoothness.

Jaywalker

This is partially a guess because I've never loaded the bullets down to that extent. I've loaded my Rem. 40XBBR with 50gr. Noslers down to 2850fps. Accuracy is .35". Rem. 52gr. HPBR (no longer made) with IMR4895 23.1grs. produces 2850fps. also and groups .250" (5 at 100yds.). The .222Rem. is unbelievably versatile. I think you can download it successfully. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:
So, one MOA is possible. Thanks. I don't plan to shoot over 200 yards, so that should serve nicely.

I should have mentioned this will be a "walking around" rifle, likely either a CZ 527, or possibly an Anschutz 1740, with a sporter-weight barrel.

Thanks again.

Jaywalker

MOA is not only possible... Sub MOA should be the norm! Tne 222 is accurate and so are some of these faster powders...

Althought I have done a lot of work with Blue Dot, I am also doing work with 2400, SR 4759, H 110 is on the list ( I have to check out if it is the same as N 110, but I am assuming it is... will get some verification)....

In the 223, I have ran loads down to 22 Long Rifle velocities and had excellent accuracy and very low retort....

I shoot sage rats with reduced loads and they are about the size of a 6 oz pop can to a 12 oz pop can in size....Reduced loads, I have about a 80 % hit ratio out to 200 yds in 22 centerfires ( 223 and 22.250) with reduced recoil loads....

Play with it and it will open an entire new world of flexibility to your firearms....

cheers
seafire

I've wanted a high quality .222 since my older brother bought a Sako Vixen in 1970. Loaded to standard velocities, I had no doubt it would be accurate, but I've had poor success loading down "deer rifle" calibers. The cases like to be 90%+ full for good accuracy. My concern was that I'd find the same phenomenon with the .222 - seems reasonable I should. Glad it isn't true.

Jaywalker

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:
but I've had poor success loading down "deer rifle" calibers. The cases like to be 90%+ full for good accuracy. My concern was that I'd find the same phenomenon with the .222 .Jaywalker

Don't know how you were down loading the deer rifle but in a number of larger cartriges moa can be achieved.

example .308, 149gr sorted bullets, 23.4 gr. Blue Dot, wlr,oal=2.830", 2267 to 2301 fps. 4 shot 3/8" group, 10 shots you could cover with a quarter, 50 yds.Primer a little flat.

similar results were obtained with 680, 4759and 2400 in 6.5x55, 8x57, 7x57 and a number of my wildcats including the .358x .404 IMP. roger

Roger:

A 358 x 404 Improved?

What are you out sniping at? Garbage Trucks?

That is a number with some punch in both directions....I know a local gunsmith who made something along the lines of that on a model 70 action for his Elk rifle....

What kind of action did you build that baby one?
curious...
cheers
seafire

Your idea is a good one but I overcame the brass availability problem in two ways - first
I order .221 Fireball in 2000 round lots. Second, if I can't get brass I then order .222 brass which will form and trim to .221 very nicely without the problems related to sizing down .223 brass. I shoot almost exclusively .221 Fireball and use 35 grain and 40 grain Vmax. For quiet loads I use Unique and 45 grain Hornet specific bullets. You will find the .222 fun to work with, but you could go with .221 Fireball without much effort.

Thanks, all. I appreciate the opportunity to learn something new.

This project, for me, anyway, is on hold for a bit. The money that was earmarked for a .222 Remington just bought a new Anschutz in .22 Magnum. This won't be quite a Hornet, either.

Jaywalker

Seafire turned me on to Blue Dot and I've had great results. You can start with about 4 grains and get 22 WRM performance and work on up. I think you will reach the velocities you want around 7 to 9 grains, but that is just a guess. Start at 6 and work up.

Another good powder choice I've heard is AA S1250. You would again start around 6 to 7 grains and work up.

Good luck,
Kory

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Roger:

A 358 x 404 Improved?

What are you out sniping at? Garbage Trucks?

That is a number with some punch in both directions....I know a local gunsmith who made something along the lines of that on a model 70 action for his Elk rifle....

What kind of action did you build that baby one?
curious...cheersseafire

Mod 98 single shot w/ Bartsche compensator. Less recoil than an 06.Pushing a 250 gr. bullet at 3100 fps. Told a fellow to fire it last week and that it wouldn't hurt him.With a lot of fear in his heart he finaly sqeezed the trigger. He was absolutely in the state of shock how little recoil there was. roger

Roger,
was just funnin' ya....

Yeah I have looked at doing something along those lines.. NO real need for it, but it would be a lot of fun....Especially if all of these 22 caliber and 6mm's weren't so darn much fun and a lot cheaper to play with....

also thanks for the info on your 12BVSS... I should have mine next week....going to go with an 8 x 32 Tasco Target Scope on it to begin with...

cheers
seafire..

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Roger,
was just funnin' ya....

Yeah I have looked at doing something along those lines.. NO real need for it, but it would be a lot of fun

I've got the reamer if you want to barrow it . sorry roger