hy, just getting into reloading, i purchased a set of hornady 2 die set for my 300 rum.my buddy is going to load me up some round's until i purchase a press, etc. etc. My question is can i neck size only with these die's, or do i have to buy a neck sizing die, any info would be appreciated, Thank's.

Richard, yes, you can adjust you FL die to neck size only, but I prefer to have a seperate neck sizing die for this operation, and I prefer Redding bushing dies to anything else.

This is more information than you asked for, but in fact, after initial sorting for obvious case defects, my standard procedure with new brass is to lubricate the necks with dry neck lube, then resize them in the neck die. This straightens out the necks perfectly, and dry lube leaves no possibly damaging residue.

Next I trim the cases just enough to square them, and to achieve uniform length.

After they're trimmed, I chamfer them, then as a final step employ a flash hole deburring tool, which to me is a critical step to consistent, reliable ignition. DO NOT deburr the flash holes until the cases are trimmed to a uniform length and chamfered. If the cases aren't of uniform length, the flash holes won't be uniformly deburred and trimmed, either.

You can uniform the primer pockets and turn the necks as well, but I've never found this to be of any practical benefit for a hunting rifle.

AD

Yes, and no! Re-adjusting a FL die only yields partial sizing, not true neck-only sizing. Buy a Lee Collet neck-sizing only die. Less than 20 bucks. No lube needed. Use this to size your cases until they get too tight to fit the chamber then run them through your Hornady FL sizer. This way you can set your dies up once and leave them locked tight at that setting instead of constantly readjusting them for partial or full length sizing.

You can neck size your cases with your full length resizing die by not screwing the die down until it contacts the shell holder. You can resize anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 of the neck, and still have plenty of bullet grip. It will, however, also partially resize the shoulder diameter, depending on how far you set the die into the press. The trick is to properly set up the die so that partially resizing the shoulder diameter doesn't push enough excess brass into the shoulder to make for difficult chambering. A slight crush fit is not only OK, it makes for perfect headspacing. Partial full length resizing also centers the neck better than a neck sizing die that doesn't support the case at all, which often results in case neck runout. The down side to partial full length resizing, of course, is tight chambering a hunting rifle when a less-than-perfect situation occurs in the field. There is a very fine line to straddle for this to be an effective technique, and getting it right requires chambering the case every time you change the die setting until you get it right.

Neck sizing dies don't affect the shoulder, but unless you have a die like the Redding bushing type which supports the case, neck runout is fairly common. This is very important because having everything concentric to the axis of the bore is paramount to good accuracy. The Redding bushing type dies are very good for this, and you can use the appropriate bushing to achieve the amount of bullet grip you're looking for.

The Lee Collet Die is a wonderful tool and does a beautiful job, and it's much cheaper than the Redding bushing-type die.

Now for the bad news. It's cheaper for a good reason. The threaded cap is aluminum. When I tried it on some .300 Win Mag cases, the first three cases came out perfect, with no case neck runout. My fourth effort stripped the threads out of that aluminum cap. Even though the instructions mention that you can get a tighter bullet grip by setting the die down more than one turn after contacting the shell holder, that one turn was enough to destroy the threads on my die's aluminum cap. It's a shame that threaded cap isn't made out of hardened steel like most dies.

[ 08-10-2003, 10:23: Message edited by: SST ]

Just be safe and get a Redding neck size die with a carbide button or and any neck size die. You can deform youre brass and have a jamed shell in youre barrel if the shoulder is screwed up. PLAY SAFE It may be the shot of youre life or youre life depending on another shot,,Whats $20.00 + Worth. From experience it is not worth it, even though it can be done with a full lenght sizer.

I`m understanding this is a 300 Rem ultra or short mag?
If so the body of the case probibly doesn`t taper enough to allow neck sizeing with a FL die. To size the case neck enough to hold the bullet you will have the die deep enough to also size the case body some. This could push the shoulder forward making chambering tight.
I`d spring for a true neck sizer for one of these rounds.........JMHO

You can only adjust FL dies to PARTIALLY size a neck, and then ONLY if the cartridge for which you are loading does NOT have significant taper in the body. Where there is not much taper in the body, it contacts the die way before you can size the neck enough. You would then be doing what some folks call "partial full sizing", not neck sizing. You need a neck die to properly size the neck without affecting the rest of case.

In the UM there isn't enough taper to prevent the shoulder from being squeezed down some if you size the neck over half way, which will then affect your headspacing and possibly not allowing you to chamber a reload. It's far better to have a dedicated neck die.

Thank's guy's, i will be purchasing neck die's for sure. Only have 2 month's left before moose hunt, so i better get busy work'n up a load for this thing. Thank's again, much appreciated.

Richard, if you are going to neck size hunting bullets than I would run them thru your rifle to make sure they all feed and eject with out any problems. You could get to your hunting grounds and jam a reloaded case in your rifle and find that you have a stuck case in your chamber. Good Luck

Richard, get a set of Redding dies.

Why: they are the best for the $ spent; they have a very detailed set of instructions on set up and use. This took me years to learn the hard way, when all along it was right under my nose.

fundamentally, what is the difference between the Lee Collet and Redding neck sizing die? Are there more than one type of Redding neck sizing die?

What about seating dies, are there any major design differences to look for between the many choices?

There is no mention of the RCBS neck sizing die in this thread. How are they, quality wise??

RCBS dies are quality dies for all around reloading. Therre are some that are a tiny bit more precise but not much. By that I mean that bench rest shooters don't use them but they probably account for more sales than any other. I have more RCBS dies than any other.

SST, the reason your Lee collet neck sizing die blew up is from NOT turning it down those extra turns. A press that will toggle over top dead center will overstress it. It's supposed to be tightened down enough that you can't toggle it over, but will stop against the resistance as the collet closes. Any further pressure past the point of the collet closing can't size the case down further, but will overstress the supporting cap of the die as you discovered. That's spelled out in the directions.

any thoughts on the reddings, how do the function, is the S type much different than the series A?

You can back off a full length sizing die to neck size, but I don't think it's advisable. You don't have the proper base support to mininmize case runout that way. You'll always need a full length sizing die at some point or another, but for most of us neck sizing is the way to go. I prefer Wilson neck sizing, bushing dies. The entire case is held solidly in place in both the sizer and seater die. You can't do much better in minimizing case runout. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

After the initial firing of a case (new brass), approx. how many neck sizing reloads can be expected before chambering will become tight, or too tight for a hunting rifle?

If you are going to hunt with this rife, DON�T neck size hunting loads.

Here�s what happened to me the last few days with neck sizing.

I am working up a load for a new 270 WSM. The thing is being persnickety. I fired a 100 new casings with various powder and bullet combinations. I run new casings through a neck size die to take out the crooks and bends and uniform up neck tension. Thirty some years ago when I started reloading, I read an article condemning neck sizing for hunting rifles since neck size casings are a tight chamber fit and may stick in the chamber after firing, something that would be a problem in the field, but not in competition.

Two nights ago I needed to resize those hundred rounds to continue the Nirvana search for that perfect load. I still had my neck die set up, so I neck sized for the second firing something I have never done with once fired casings. (I have 2 loading tools, 1 for sizing 1 for seating.) The next day when I went to testing powder and bullet combinations, the bolt lifted hard on every round I fired. I mean really hard, even at minimum powder charge. I did some thinking, then dug out 3 new unfired casings, loaded them with the same load that was sticking and the hard lift problem went away. No problem with the new casings. Neck sizing can cause sticking problems in a hunting rifle. It does in my 270 WSM, even with a spit shinned chamber.

Two Notes: I clean down to bare metal after every 15 rounds, and it�s exactly five steps from my loading bench in my garage to my shooting bench out the back door of the garage. Instant gratification on any load combination I choose.

Something else is wrong with that load to cause your difficult extraction. Simply having neck sized the cases for the second firing won't do it. I have cases I've neck sized four or five times that still function fine with full loads in hunting rifles. Benchresters commonly load many more times than that with neck sizing only, using pressure levels well above what most of us would feel comfortable with.

It wasn�t just a load, it was every load I tried and I tried many loads always starting with a low charge. I never got anywhere close to max charge before rejecting the powder bullet combination. Again, I fired 100 rounds of virgin brass without a problem. I started with the low recommended load and worked up. None of the loads ever reached max charge.

Chrony rounds showed velocity right where the load manuals said it should be in both the virgin brass and the neck sized. (Nosler, Speer, Barnes, Swift and a few others off the Short Mag data forum.)

No other signs of pressure. (Put a mic on the base and compared fired sticky load with a new casing. Not much difference.)

I did take AA3100 behind a Nosler 140 Accubond from minimum load to max. Bolt felt sticky from lowest to max charge. It never changed; that is, got stickier as the charge increased. I also measured base with a mic before and after firing. Too little change to comment on.

Minimum loads fired with the virgin brass didn�t stick, but the same brass neck sized with the same load did stick the bolt. I other words, if I use full length sized brass, no stick, but with neck size and the same load and bullet, sticky.

Again, not other sign of pressure and the chrony back this up. Even at minimum load, the neck sized stuck with every powder I put in it.

I kept back some virgin brass to load for hunting. When I loaded this brass and fired it, easy bolt opening. Base measured the same as neck sized casing that did stick.

Basically I am a coward when it come to reloading. I have one pair of eyes and want to keep them, and so, no hot loads. I�ve posted here many times in the past that I have never gotten the best accuracy with max loads and therefore I stay away from them. I am not a speed demon.

Rifle hasn�t been modified in any way except for glass bedding.

What other conclusion can I draw?

Neck sizing may work 99 out of a 100 times, but with my luck, the 100 time will be when I need a second shot at a humongous buck or bull elk. This experience convinced me that full length sizing is the way to go.

Dave Tubb has an article in Rifle Shooter on reloading. He recommends full length sizing hunting loads because they have to feed without hanging up. He says that he full length sized his competition loads.

Roger K
Tubbs opinion and a buck will get you a cup of coffee. At least on this one (and his whoring of the benifits of shooting sand down your barrel).
You have a crap chamber in your rifle.

You also COULD have a rough bolt face besides the rough chamber, or even an out of round AND eccentric chamber, making it difficult to cam the bolt up after you fire a properly formed case. The issue here is NOT giving definitive advice against neck sizing when a large percentage of knowledgeable reloaders do it for hunting loads without a hitch.

I have been reloading since the mid 60s. I consider myself knowlegable and cautious with caution outweighing knowlege by a wide margine. No matter how much I learn about this sometime damnable addiction, I will alway apply what I know with a lot of caution.

I'm not a speed demon. I have never used a load at max charge. I go for accuracy, not velocity and in my experience, velocity tends to diminish accuracy at the upper end, at least in the caliburs I have reloaded so far. On all rifles I have owned and reloaded for, my best accuracy has always been 1.5 to 2 grains below listed max. I'll sacrifice velocity for accuracy any day.

I keep a three ring binder for every rifle I have and record every shot fired, powder charge, bullet and seating depth. With the exception of rounds fired in the field at game, I record groups fired by drawing a graph that repsents the group the load produced with group spread recorded.

Having said that, nobody here is addressing why I was able to fire 100 rounds without a problem with brass that was full length sized. My records show that I never got close to max load on any of the combinations I tried. No stick bolt for 100 rounds. Not one pressure sign. Chrony matches the load data in the books exactly. Now the only thing that I change in thirty some years of reloading practice is neck sizing the 100 rounds that went through the rife without a hitch and suddenly 100 out of those 100 cases stick, even with the minimum load.

Conclusion: Neck sizing will not work in this rifle. It may work in my 300 WSM, it may not. It may work in your rifle, it may not. If somebody wants to neck size a hunting rifle, go for it, but shoot a lot before the hunt and shoot under hunting conditions.

Reloading, like marriage, can be, within parameters, a very personal thing. Chances are I wouldn't marry your wife and you wouldn't marry mine, but what we have works for us. Within parameters. Same with reloading. Within parameters.

PS: I hit on a load that works well in this rife yesterday afternoon. It put three rounds in a group touching each other. Late yesterday I tested the load at 300 yards. In variable winds I fired 4 inch groups. Holding right on my aim point and firing while resting across the hood of my pickup, I recorded a bullet drop consitent with every manuel I checked. Velocit is very close to that listed in the manuel. One more test. I fire the last of the neck sized casing then full length size and fire again. That should tell the story.

Richard Wayne,

Since it's the hunting season right now don't fool with a neck sizing die even if you have one now.

Just set your FL die to the exact correct headspace and do all testing, sighting and hunting with FL loads. This will eliminate variables.

It's not that easy to set a FL die just right. It takes time and carefull small adjustments as the locking ring should be tightened each time. What happens is that when a FL die sizes the sides of a case it makes the headspace tighter and tighter as one sets the die down more and more. It seems as if the bolt is never going to close well at all. Then one makes a big change all all of a sudden the case falls in the chamber and there is little bolt effort. This case may now be oversized depending on luck.

It's best to remove the firing pin from the bolt or hold it back somehow so you feel only the case when the bolt is closed on an unloaded test case.

I don't neck size many rounds at all. I have too many rifles and too much ammo around. It just complicates things for me not that neck sizing can't be done and done well.

At our club we have a large group of long range target shooters. These guys learn from each other and even support a shop where actions and rifles are made up just for the various target matches. These guys are winning matches all over North America.

Most of them FL size their rounds! This is the bottom line for winning matches and not having a malfunction. Neck sizing just introduces a variable as sooner or later the headspace of the case gets too tight. Why wait for that to happen?

As I said above advanced handloaders can make neck sizing work for them but don't do it now. Save it for a winter project.