My Gun = New Kimber Custom II .45 ACP

I've been collecting my brass from my UMC, PMC, and S & B ammo that I've been running through my gun during the break-in period. All 230 Gr, some were hollow point, others just ball ammo FMJ.

In going through the brass seeing what is viable for reloading, I'm finding that 80% of the brass is unusable. There are dings and dents in the brass that is deeper than just surface dings. When I run my nail across them I can feel them perfectly.

I asked at my gun shop today about the dents in the brass. The guy there said that they were caused by the cartridge hitting the slide while being extracted - and that any brass that showed any ding should not be reused for reloading.

Is this right? does anyone else have this kind of a reject rate? Does one have to toss out any casing with a ding in it?

This is only my opinion and I am sure a competitive shooter might agree with your dealer but I really feel like it is BS. I have reloaded lots of dinged brass and gotten some very good groups. I of course am not trying to sell you anything. I could see the need for new brass if the dings are fully punctured or if the mouth of the case was dinged to the point of causing cracks when you bell the case but I don't think I could afford to toss every dinged case I picked up after once-firing. You didn't say whether or not your gun-guy saw any of your brass and he may have commented on the side of safety but I would really look into it further.
Again, Only my opinion.
Frank

[ 05-30-2003, 05:38: Message edited by: Frank Martinez ]

I agree with Frank. Before I changed to supers for IPSC I shot a bunch load of 45's and darn few of them didn't have some marks on 'em.

Unless you're looking for NRA bullseye accurace ... which takes a true match quality gun to conquer ... don't sweat the small stuff!

Shoot'm until they split down the side!

I would use it. I believe you`ll find the sizer will iron out alot of the shallower dents and unless the others pierce/crack the case I doubt you`ll have any trouble. I have fired quite a bit of dented stuff through my Kimber with no problems.

progrmr - what are the chances you have a way to post pictures of the brass. I agree with the above, in that some dings/scratches out of an auto are going to happen, however, making a suggestion is a lot different then making an informed suggestion. If you can show us what you are dealing with.......

Ok, here's my deal, I strongly(read STRONGLY)advise you to find someone who can stand next to you while you are learning to reload. The advice you will find on this site is world-class (literally), but there is one thing to keep in mind; internet information is not flawless. During the reloading process a lot of issues may arise that you may not (yet) know to look for, and just asking general questions about something that needs exact clarification may come back to bite you. Let me give you an example: you have cases that are "dinged", Frank, mIke and myself probably have three different mental pictures in our heads of a "dinged and dented case". My mental picture is probably worse case, the problem is how bad are they? Nobody really knows but you right now.......

I'm done, and I apoligize for the rambling; reloading has to be taken seriously, it's not like soccer - if you miss the goal here it could get ugly.

I should add I think 80% of your cases hitting the slide is a problem the dealer should have looked at. It sounds like the extractor may need a bit of adjustment, or the recoil spring isn`t proper for the ammo being used.

Again, I agree with all that is said here.

An adjustment of the extractor (roll off of the extraction groove and the tension of the extractor) and the ejector (angle it makes with the case head) can usually reduce or eliminate the case mouth being munched as it bangs into an edge of the ejection port.

Most if not all deformation of the mouth of the case will be cleaned up in the sizing and belling of the case in the reloading process.

But ... honest ... the 45 ACP is the most forgiving of all cases I ever loaded as far as dings in the case body. It is a low pressure round which can literally be shot until it splits down the side. One is usually slightly more conservative than that and shoots them until the head stamp is unreadable ... and then toss them into the trash. Ten to 20 or more firings is not usual depending on the load.

For really nasty business ammo ( ... easily exceeds IPSC major power factor) I'd not shoot them more than twice.

The extractor definitely needs to be worked on. I shot NRA bullseye events regularly for a good number of years. One of the things that also will help is opening/lowering the ejection port of your .45acp. If this is a "social" gun, have a good pistolsmith go over it. Don't trust it as it is now.

In South Africa we call it a "Port and Dimple" job.

The smith lowers the ejection port by about 0.1" and re-establishes the bevel inside. This prevents the case mouth dings. Then the outside of the slide is relieved at an angle with a circular end mill behind the extractor. Kinda hard to describe. This prevents dings lower in the case body as the case flips out of the slide and hits the slide.

Pete

There should be no problem using dinged brass. Most of it will be removed when the brass is resized.

Your "gun dealer" is blowing smoke!

Progrmr-If factory rounds are not functioning perfectly, you have a gun problem

progrmr
Shoot them until they split!! Most times the sizer will fix most of the offending marks if not they'll striaghten out the next firing. In 45 ACP if it isn't cracked/split/or excessizely bulged at the web- its get reloaded. I love my 45 ACP!!!

Progrmr,

Mike's reloaded more .45 than I have and as usual is more conservative. When the headstamp is worn off the brass is just getting broken in! I've got .45 brass that's old enough to buy it's own gun.

Actually, if the mouth dents are just "dents" you're OK. I have seen 1911's that mangled the case mouth by folding or creasing them, that's a bad thing. As others have said most mere dents will iron out in the reloading process. Pay close attention to the rim itself, if it's getting chewed up by the extractor that will affect reload reliabillity.

If your gun is reliable with factory ammo don't sweat the brass. But if it's doing what you described get on the phone with the company that built it and get the problem rectified. Then after you've got a gun that shoots factory ammo 100% worry about the reloading aspect.

JMHO

Rick

[ 05-31-2003, 00:42: Message edited by: Rick R ]

^^

Yea, I'm shooting at the same place I bought the gun tomorrow. If I have a problem, I'm going right to the counter and getting some service.

If there isn't an actual "cut" and a pretty good one at that in the surface of the brass, it will iron out on firing. I have used a metal dowel to round out a half moon mouth enough to start the resizer ball into it.

I seriously doubt that all Kimbers dont already have an enlarged ejection port, and probably a "flare" at its rear,also. For their price, they should have all kinds of custom touches, gobs of them.

You've received some excellent advise. It's a little hard to believe that a Kimber would have problems as you have described.

I would offer another suggestion. What about the ammo? Neither PMC nor S&B impress me too much. UMC, seems like your talking about some old stoff here also. Try a box of current production ball from Federal or Winchester. Are the results the same? When I shot the M1911, I occasionally had difficulties but those problems were more related to my grip if memory serves me correctly. Hold it like you mean it. That does make a difference.

jeff

I think I have had the same problem with my 45. I have a Colt 1991 A1. Is the dent in the middle of the case on the side? That happens to alot of mine when I load lead bullets. Have to use a weaker load than I can with the FMJ's. Try a beefier load. It worked for me. About the brass, I am still alive.

Dude may have caught something others have missed. The tension of the spring and or the "red stuff" may be interfering with the slide not opening fully prior to ejection causing the brass to ding more than normal. I know I had a little problem with my 70 series which disappeared by going to a little hotter load. In any case I would suggest a good and qualified gunsmith who is not standing behind the counter where you bought the firearm. If you already spoke with him at all and he didn't aggressivly seek to identify and remedy the problem, I doubt he has your best interest at heart.
In any case keep working at it. Strife will obviously help you learn the most about your gun and the extra shooting will make you a "most deadly shooter."
Frank

Thanks for all the new posts.

The problem is still occuring. I emailed Kimber, and they recommended I adjust the tension of the extractor following the instructions at m1911.org.

The people at the shop where I bought the gun seem to want me to give it to them so I can pay for them to do some work. I think the people there are very professional, but I also think they have $$$ on their mind, not the customers level of satisfaction.

So I'm going shooting tomorrow - After I take my slide apart tonight and tweak the tension on the extractor just a bit.

Hopefully all will be well. I've also had my eye on a replacement extractor from Wilson Combat; but really the Kimber extractor should be of quite high quality.

progrmr,

A little trick that may help is to swap out the ejector and install the ejector for the commander. Good luck

Should a person have to rework a brand new custon pistol? I wouldn't think so.

^^
I agree that after fessing up $700+ I shouldn't have to do a damn thing to get it to fire factory ammo 100% of the time.

However, I took apart my slide last night and tested the extractor per the recommendations on the m1911.org website. The extractor tension was so loose it didn't hold the bullet at all. In fact it didn't look like the extractor was tuned at all from the factory.

I bent it a bit and took it shooting today. Only messed up 1 time with 50 rounds of S & B, and twice with my 96 reloads (5.9 grains of IMR 7625 & 230 gr TMJ Sierra bullet). So three times total out of nearly 150 rounds. A definite improvment.

I just cleaned the gun and added a bit more tension to the extractor and I might try to shoot it again tomorrow if I can get the time to do some more reloading. But I was actually able to focus on my shooting today instead of worrying about the gun jamming on me.

Of course, the Kimber is VERY accurate and I had a great day at the range. For some reason my accuracy goes to pot at 30 ft; but at 25 I am right on!