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I wonder how consistent my neck tension is when sizing on a different day? You set up the die until it "feels like" 25lbs of force or tight enough that you cannot insert a bullet into the case with your fingers. So lets say that you load a batch today, put your gear away and load a batch a week later. How do you know if your neck tension is consistent from batch to batch?? I read the directions and viewed every video on Youtube but I am still wondering. How critical is consistent neck tension?? Maybe I am over thinking this? | ||
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My view is that consistent neck tension is critical. Guys do a lot to achieve it. Maybe I need to load a batch of ammo with cases sized with different bushings in my Redding die and actually test it properly and see if I change my opinion. I use Lee Collet dies from time to time with good results. That being said, I also worry about getting the neck tension right. I think the answer is that once youve closed the fingers against the collet that's it and any more pressure will add nothing. It seems to me that 25lbs is seen as the level where that occurs. I have never measured 25lbs and simply size until it feels to me as though sizing is done. Some calibers seem to have more "feel" than others (and all cases are annealed). I use a RC, so it's not a Lee press. I tried setting up to toggle over at the top of the stroke as was recommended elsewhere on the net and it felt as though this should be more consistent as it was always being done the same, but I had varying results and eventually set the die up as Lee recommends. I like the end of the arm stroke with the handle pretty much parallel to the ground as that is where I have the best feel. | |||
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The collet die will give you no more or less consistency in how much it sizes the neck than will any other type of die (assuming it is operated correctly*). The inconsistency in bullet pull is a result of inconsistency in neck hardness. A harder neck has more springback than a softer neck, so after sizing in a Lee Collet die its inside diameter will be (theoretically) larger, due to springback, than a case with a softer neck. If you want consistent bullet pull, you need consistent neck hardness, not a different type of die. That said, neck annealing to achieve consistency is easier said than done in the absence of specialized equipment. *Set up your die so that you are able to apply consistent pressure on the collet. Also, I like to withdraw the sized case part way, rotate it 1/8 turn, then run it back into the sizer again. This assures more eveness in the sizing of the neck. | |||
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If you are trying to be more consistent I would suggest that unless you have a tubular magazine or a semi-auto that you don't crimp. I have been reloading for 44 years - not as long as some and a lot longer than others but my experience may differ from yours so take it for what it is worth. I don't use bullets with crimping grooves in any of my rifles. The only rounds I have fired that are crimped are either military or commercially loaded and my handloads are far more accurate than any of the crimped rounds. My guns are bolt actions and stacked magazine fed. The times I have had to pull bullets tell me that there is more than enough tension to hold the bullets in place. My shooting for group size has been at 100 yards with "acceptable groups" in the 3/4" for five shot strings. My best group to date was .33" with a 35 caliber gun, .5" with my old 03A3, .6" with my 30-30 and .27" with my 223. I seat my bullets very close the the recommended OAL for the load in the data because that is how the load was developed by those who did the work. I have always found acceptable accuracy between 90% and 97% of full loads in my rifles. Crimping a case with a bullet that has no groove deforms the bullet and may separate the core from the jacket because the jacket will spring back more than the lead core - causing problems with accuracy and terminal performance. If the crimps are more or less consistent from round to round and session to session then it might add consistency to your accuracy but it does add another variable to the loading process. The tension of the neck can still cause inconsistencies even with the added crimp. The way I see it is, Why add more variables? Speer, Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon have reliable reloading data. You won't find it on so and so's web page. | |||
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Hi Paul As I read it the OP was asking about the Collet NECK SIZER, not the Collet CRIMP die. I agree with your comments on crimping which I use only on calibers where it is necessary for the intended use. | |||
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I second Stonecreek's post. The only way I have to minimize the neck hardness issue when I use collet dies is to size the neck three times, rotating the case 1/3 to 1/2 turn between each cycle. It takes less time than it sounds and seems to do the best job, especially with mixed brass. I worked it out when I had a 22 Hornet and saw how fast those little thin case necks lost consistency. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Hey thanks fellas! I broke down and ordered the torque wrench tool that replaces the press handle... It was $95 bucks | |||
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Sorry, I misread the post. Doesn't the neck sizer use a pilot of some kind in the neck as the collet sizes? Would that not keep things uniform regardless of the pressure? Speer, Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon have reliable reloading data. You won't find it on so and so's web page. | |||
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The mandrel is sized to give a .001 under size fit. If you want more you can chuck the mandrel in a drill and sand off another .001 ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Yes, once the fingers are closed that's it. So yes, it should be equal provided one goes as far as the point where the fingers close. | |||
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I bought a set of both .243 Win and 6mm Rem collet dies when they first came out. The .243 dies worked ok with the WW brass that I had then. The 6mm dies did not work so hot. The Remington brass had some taper in the thickness over the length of the long 6mm neck. The base of the neck would be sized ok but the case mouth was not very tight. When I tried to increase the pressure I got lines in the case necks caused by the edges of the collet fingers. My accuracy was always excellent so I was primarily interested in being able to size without lube. I just switched over to a Wilson bushing die. | |||
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The lines are visible thats true but can be ironed out by turning the case a tad then sizing again ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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I ordered and use this Torque Wrench from Titan Reloading. I use it for my Lee Factory Crimp die. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Rusty I just received mine yesterday. Did you use yours yet? | |||
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Yes I have. I hope to get to the range this week or next to see if it helps. I feel like it helps. Don't forget to "warm it up" according to directions. It installed with no problems on my Lee Classic. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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