I got to thinking today; Who set the standards for rifle cartridges? e.g. primer diameter, pocket depth, head diameter etc? Seems so many international rounds use the exact same measurements; where did they all originate? And who keeps them in check now?

Where is ALF when you need him??

In the US, that would be SAAMI.....more or less...

Right, but you can use US primers in about every cartridge in the world, so why/how did the US (or was it foreign) measurements become the standard?

I believe there are some countries still using the Berdan primer in their military rounds. I know some of our own developed ammo used Berdan primers in the past, like the old Sharps ammo.The old English cartridges still used Berdan primers till after the war. But I think most of he standards we use today are the result of military development. And the rise in popularity of reloading. The Berdan primed cases are a real pain to reload.

Some of the steel cased 223 (Wolf I think) has Berdan Primers. There may be others.

Mark

My take? Berdan and Boxer more than likely had patents for their priming systems. They probably sold the patents or granted manufacturing rights. The manufacturers (with help from ballisticians) probably determined the optimum size/configuration for the various loadings at the time and decided on what primers they would produce for the ammo makers. The ammo makers bought the proper "off the shelf" primer for their particular application.

BTW, you can't use "US" primers in about every cartridge in the world, you can only use "US" (Boxer) primers in brass that is made for Boxer primers. Same goes for Berdan.

At one time there were a great many different diameters and depths of Berdan primers used in European cartridges. RWS used to have quite an extended range of them available to handloaders, as late as the 1960s. There were, of course, even more in the 1930s.

Over the years, as the number of popular sporting cartridges was reduced, so were many sizes of primers discontinued.

It was not so much which size of primer (and pellet) worked best in a particular carridge, as the marketplace which determined the primers that were eventually discontinued, and those which are still manufactured.

The same sort of thing applied in the U.S., but we had a great deal less variety to start with....although at least as late as the 1930's, Winchester supplied about a half dozen different ones, NOT including shotgun primers.

Many head diameters can be traced to the 7x57.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
In the US, that would be SAAMI.....more or less...

To be a little more specific, the SAAMI member that develops / submits the cartridge specs TO SAAMI sets all the specifications, and than SAAMI publishes them. Any other SAAMI member that manufactures a firearm for or that cartridge follows the original submitters specifications

quote:

BTW, you can't use "US" primers in about every cartridge in the world, you can only use "US" (Boxer) primers in brass that is made for Boxer primers. Same goes for Berdan

To elaborate: How were the early rounds like the 494 JEff, 7x57 etc primed? Are you saying what we consider the 'modern' versions of old cartridges are actually modified designs to accept our primers? Very interesting.

Here's a little history:

Berdan primer

Berdan primers are named after their American inventor, Hiram Berdan of New York who invented his first variation of the Berdan primer and patented it on March 20, 1866, in U.S. Patent 53,388. A small copper cylinder formed the shell of the cartridge, and the primer cap was pressed into a recess in the outside of the closed end of the cartridge opposite the bullet. In the end of the cartridge beneath the primer cap was a small vent-hole, as well as a small teat-like projection or point (later to be known as an anvil) fashioned from the case, such that the firing pin could crush the primer against the anvil and ignite the propellant. This system worked well, allowing the option of installing a cap just before use of the propellant-loaded cartridge as well as permitting reloading the cartridge for reuse.

Difficulties arose in practice because pressing in the cap from the outside tended to cause a swelling of the copper cartridge shell, preventing reliable seating of the cartridge in the chamber of the firearm. Berdan's solution was to change to brass shells, and to further modify the process of installing the primer cap into the cartridge, as noted in his second Berdan Primer patent of September 29, 1869, in U.S. Patent 82,587. Berdan primers have remained essentially the same functionally to the present day.


Boxer primer

Meanwhile, Edward M. Boxer, of the Royal Arsenal, Woolwich, England was working on a primer cap design for cartridges, patenting it in England on October 13, 1866, and subsequently received a U.S. patent for his design on June 29, 1869, in U.S. Patent 91,818.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

BTW, you can't use "US" primers in about every cartridge in the world, you can only use "US" (Boxer) primers in brass that is made for Boxer primers. Same goes for Berdan

To elaborate: How were the early rounds like the 494 JEff, 7x57 etc primed? Are you saying what we consider the 'modern' versions of old cartridges are actually modified designs to accept our primers? Very interesting.

Not really a modified design of the cartridge, (other than the priming system). US mfg'd brass was made to accept Boxer primers. Brit and Euro brass was made for the Berdan system.