I am struggling to get my head arround reloading my recently acquired Dumoulin in 308 Norma Mag.

I know:
1) The recomended OAL is 85mm
2) This calibre is known to have a very long freebore spec.
3) It should perform well with bullets in the 180 to 200gr class.

I have been using 180 & 200gr bullets in Hornady Interbond & Nosler Accubond
Firstly my magazine is short. I may just manage to fit an 85mm cartridge.

If I load a 200gr Accubond to fit the magazine I have two concerns:
1) The freebore will be about 16mm
2) The base of the bullet will extend 10mm into the volume of the case (ie. deeper than the actual neck of the cartridge)

Somehow I just cannot come to terms with the idea of a bullet seated that deep into the case volume, or THAT amount of travel to the lands?
One plus is that I don't believe this will compress the load as there seems to be plenty of space.

I have been loading and hand feeding single shot with these bullets seated to the bottom of the neck. Accuracy seems acceptable, but I know it should be better still. No signs of pressure on loads giving me 2920fps with 180gr bullets...

Any thoughts or links to other enlightening posts would be appreciated....

Well my first question would be how does it shoot????

85mm is a recommendation. I don't know that there is a industry standard. If it doesn't fit then load as long as you can as long as you clear the lands. As to the amount of bullet jump. If the rifle is accurate I could care less. Most factory rifles can't get close to the lands. Just about anytime you start loading heavy bullets in a caliber you are going to have bullet base below the neck. Not a big deal in my book. Only time it becomes an issue is if the net capacity is to small to allow you to use the max loads of your powder of choice.

I would lengthen the magazine box to accommodate the longest-seated bullet that the barrel's throat will accept; the clearances you cite are unacceptable to me.
Regards, Joe

I would work to what you have to work with. Seat the bullets to fit in your magazine and use bullets and powder to find a sweet spot at that length.
If you are using fire formed cases and sizing to the shoulders rather than the belt, your rifle should perform well. Are you PFL resizing your cases? Straight ammo is needed when you have a good deal of free bore.
IMO, it's kinda pointless to develope a load that has to be loaded single fire in a magazine rifle that is going to be used for hunting.

Thanks for ideas so far!

To follow up:

My gunsmith advises that he can extend the magazine to at least 90mm (perhaps a bit more) The cost would be SAR1000 (about US$130) which I think is reasonable to achieve if needed.

I am neck sizing and outside reaming the necks to help concentricity.

My VERY specific aim for this rifle is to do long (300m +) shots on gemsbuck etc. so I specifically want the 200gr bullet and in a quality type (bonded spitzer)The rifle has shown potential for accuracy on some early groups with 180gr bullets, so I've no doubt it will do what I intend.

Any which way I will still be seating bullets well into the case cavity it seems. I've been told this is of no serious consequence except where powder space may be limited (which does not seem to be an issue yet) so I'll load a few like that and try.

Hey Stephen, The selection of Bullet has as much to do with this as anything else, perhaps more. The Bullets you selected to use have a very high B.C., which means they have to be Designed with a very l-o-n-g sleek Profile. As that happens, the contact Point on the Bullet's Ogive moves farther toward the rear of the Bullet. And you get a longer jump to the beginning of the Lead when you are constrained by the magazine for OCL.

The bad part is that even if the Gun Smith is able to extend the magazine, the rifle might or might not shoot well with those specific Bullets. So, it is a gamble if you spend the money. And if he extends it 5mm(for $130) that still puts the sleek Bullets 11mm, or approximately 0.435", away from the Lead. I'd say JD's recommendation of spending $130 to get 5mm(0.2") closer is Full-of-Beans.

Another, much better, choice would be to use a Bullet with a Lower B.C., like a Round Nose, or one with a Flat Meplat like the 180gr Speer Mag Tip or the 180gr Speer Grand Slam. Any of those style Bullets will be closer to touching the Lands when Seated to fit your current 85mm magazine requirement than will the sleeker Bullets.
-----

But, there is also a Good Side. Since you are only interested in 300m shots, any of the less-sleek Bullets will do just fine, depending on the specific Game you are interested in.

And just because the Sleek Bullets have to jump a good distance to reach the Lands does not necessarily mean they will shoot poorly. I have one specific Bullet for one specific rifle which has to jump a good distance and it still shoots 0.6MOA when I do my part.

So you may be concerned about something that really doesn't matter at all. You mentioned the Accuracy is acceptable, but you did not say what it actually is. How does it shoot right now?

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
I'd say JD's recommendation of spending $130 to get 5mm(0.2") closer is Full-of-Beans.

That WASN'T my suggestion; I suggested extending the magazine length to accomodate the maximum length that the throat would accept. That would allow any seating depth for any bullet without any pointless thrashing about attempting to use an unwanted bullet.

The price and the short additional dimension came from the owner's smith, not me. I wouldn't spend a dime on it unless I could extend the mag box to the max or eliminate the excessive freebore.
Regards, Joe

Neither issue would bother me. Some rifles shoot great w/ freebore & others can be made to. The bullet into the powder space no big deal either. Most short cases suffer from this & do fine, the 260, 7-08, 308 come to mind & any of the short mags.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
I would lengthen the magazine box to accommodate the longest-seated bullet that the barrel's throat will accept ...

Hey J.D., Who did you believe "suggested" lengthening the magazine? Have I missed something?!?!?

How can Stephan get it done cheaper or at no cost?

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
I would lengthen the magazine box to accommodate the longest-seated bullet that the barrel's throat will accept ...
Hey J.D., Who did you believe "suggested" lengthening the magazine? Have I missed something?!?!?

JD said he would lengthen the box to fit the longest bullet he mentioned no $$ that I see. He sure didnt' say move it only 5mm. Stephen is the one that said his smith would move it 5mm for $130.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey J.D., Who did you believe "suggested" lengthening the magazine? Have I missed something?!?!?
Apparently you did. I suggested the lengthening TO THE MAX but mentioned no price.

How can Stephan get it done cheaper or at no cost?
That wasn't the question. If it was my rifle then I'd do it myself but he'll hafta find a nearby smith.

Regards, Joe

So you all want to argue just to be arguing.

This may sound strange but back when I used the 300 WBY a lot I was concerned about the long jump to the lands. I found that with the 200 gr. partion this is way back, the tail of the bullet was still in the case when the bullet hit the rifleing. The gun was a Mod. 70, this combo shot extremely well, much better than lighter weights. Maybe try some long bullets and you may find mag. length doesn't matter. Don't worry about useing up case capacity, you can find a powder that'll work.

...you can find a powder that'll work... Too true. I think the "fault" of the bullet intruding into the powder space was dreamed up by writers on a slow news day.
I don't recall it's use until the .300WM came along with it's short neck. Which the writers jumped all over. Forgetting that the case body was longer than the .308Norma which is the case Winchester would have developed if they'd been a bit quicker.

The key to solving your problem is to stop referring to things in the metric system. Measuring things in mm will only confuse the situation.

quote:

The freebore will be about 16mm

I hate to sound condescending, but you're worrying about nothing!
Load the bullets to the maximum allowable magazine length and shoot them to see how they print. There is no rule to COL. as long as it is not BELOW the SAAMI minimum, which may be dangerous!

I have several Weatherby cartridges which all have considerable freebore, I even use the older lengths that run at 1/2" or more!
None of my rifles are inaccurate, in fact they are all better than average when it comes to accuracy.
Even my 300WinMag is considered long throated at .400", and it shoots into .25MoA-.5MoA in F-Class Open.

The point about compressed loads is a mute point, it makes no difference to performance or accuracy.
One point I'll give you when making compressed charge loads, use a powder funnel and tip it to one side as you pour in your powder so that it 'swirls' around the axis of the funnel, it should look like a ;tornado' as it spirals around the funnel, this will give give the powder more time to settle allowing more room for it!

Stephen,
You have some excellent advice posted above. I also shoot a 308 Norma. The rifle is an old Yugo Interarms imported that started out as a 30-06 and rechambered to 308 Norma. It shoots well, (1 MOA) no matter what powder or bullet weight used. Since it is used for hunting rather than match shooting, all loads are made to comfortable fit the magazine.

As a side comment, if factory Norma cases are difficult to come by, I use any 7mm Rem. Mag cases, lubricate the inside fo the neck and gently run it thru the full length 308 Norma sizing die.

Fire forming is not necessary. The necks are a bit shorter than the 308 Norma but it does not seem to have any effect on function or accuracy. This negates having to trim the brass for proper length. Since 7 Rem Mag brass is plentiful and often free, I do not reload more than twice.

I will be using this very rifle to cull black wildebeest, blue wildebeest and red hartebeest in July.

Geoff