Anyone have any loads for the 168 VLD and the 7RM? Any velocities over 3000 fps?

Bobby B.

Maybe this will help:

7mm REMINGTON MAGNUM
Bullet Powder Start Load Approximate Start Velocity MAX LOAD Approximate Max Velocity Max Load Density
168 Grain IMR 7828SSC, 62.0: 2855, 65.3: 3002 95.1%
168 Grain H4831 SC 63.0 2802 66.3 2970 96.0%
168 Grain RE-22 62.0 2832 65.0 2984 96.2%
168 Grain H1000 66.0 2826 69.5 2987 100.1%
168 Grain NORMA MRP2 65.0 2812 68.5 2970 102.4%
168 Grain WIN WXR 62.0 2838 65.3 2982 95.1%
168 Grain AA MAG PRO 65.0 2847 68.5 3007 96.7%
168 Grain Ramshot Magnum 67.0 2845 70.7 3019 98.7%
168 Grain VIHT N165 62.0 2760 65.3 2892 97.5%
168 Grain RETUMBO 66.0 2839 70.4 3022 104.7%
168 Grain IMR 4350 55.5 2802 58.3 2920 88.1%
168 Grain IMR 4831 57.5 2772 60.5 2897 90.8%
168 Grain AA XMR 3100 61.0 2743 64.5 2888 96.5%
168 Grain VIHT N560 62.0 2851 65.6 3014 94.0%
168 Grain RE- 25 64.5 2875 67.8 3012 101.9%
168 Grain NORMA MRP 62.5 2868 65.7 3007 95.1%

Thanks, Doc. Are these results from a 24" or 26" barrel?

Bobby B.

26"

If that data is from Berger then its just a formula workup from Quick Load and not actual testing.

I have their 'data' for that bullet, which I like, in the 7mm WSM and my load using RL 22 is a half grain less than what they published so its pretty much right in my rifle.

If you can get these to shoot, they will be the best long range bullet you'll use. they make a good long range hunting bullet for animals under elk.

normally for best accuracy youll have to seat them into the lands - youll need to do alot of seating depth testing. and normally they dont like being pushed ultra fast.

Best of luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul from nz:
... they make a good long range hunting bullet for animals under elk. ...

Hey Paul, Can you give us some Details about your Kills with them?

Stuff like the size of the Game, where the Points-of-Impact happened to be and if they made an Exit. A general summary would be great if that is too much.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

Here is the exit hole in a 120# (dressed wgt.) doe shot at 316 yds with the 168 gr Berger VLD started at 2900 fps from a 7mm WSM. The deer dropped right there.

This is a very accurate bullet in both that M70 7mm WSM and a 7X57. No seating depth work or fussing was needed.

Here is the last check target fired at 200 yds with the 168 VLD from my 7mm WSM.

Here is the rifle I used for the shot.

Over on longrangehunting.com these bullets are used alot for kills 600+ yards. A recent load showed up for them 7mm with a large charge of 67 grains RL22 that was nearing 3200 fps. I guess it's all about working up safely.

Well, ive shot about 5 goats they weigh around 130 pounds live weight through the chest at 400 yards with 190gr VLDS out of my 300WSM. all instant kills but i dont think i ever found an exit wound. the internals were a little messy.
I was pleased. I have shot rabbits and general varmints with them no worries too.

I know its not a thorough test but a good start none the less. I have only heard good comments about them so far.

Hey Paul, Some guy had made a post on either the Medium or Small Bore Board about using them perhaps 4-8 months ago. He mentioned that he had "Exits" with them, like S99 did in the above flick. I don't remember much about it other than I believe the guy was shooting for the Lungs or Shoulders on Game and he might have been using them in Africa.

There was also either a Link to, or a cut/paste from the Berger Ad saying very adamently there would be "NO Exits" at all when the Berger Bullets were used.

I seriously doubt Walt Berger had much input on the ad, if any at all. But it brought up the question in my mind, if(when) the Bullet did Exit, should it be considered a Bullet Failure. Would it be a Manufacturing Defect, or a Marketing Ad Defect?

Sounds like yours worked as advertised.

We had a guy this year using them for bull elk and did get his 6x6 out of a 7mm STW but I want a exit hole.

In his article on VLD's Barness suggests them for game under 400 lbs so that seems to exclude bull elk.

If the VLD exits or not depends upon the length and impact speed of the bullet and what it encounters through the animal.

Not all bullets exit all of the time anyway.

I shot a deer on the top of its back as it ran away at 130 yds with a 155 VLD from a 308. The bullet only penetrated about 8" but it hammered the deer and stopped it.

I like the VLD's.

Hey Rob, I prefer Exits for the Game I Kill too. There seems to be a vast majority of Hunting situations where having the opportunity for two Blood Trails is an advantage.

I recently purchased a box of 22cal Bergers that I want to try on some Varmints. I have little doubt they will be accurate. And I expect them to perform similar to a Speer TNT. But, I doubt the Berger will give Exits like the very accurate and economical 50gr PLHP Rem.
-----

Hey S99, I do not remember the Berger Ad saying the Bullets "should not" be used on a specific weight Game, or any particuler Game. But that memory could be wrong.

It was John Barsness who wrote that in an article in Rifle or Handloader Magazine.

Its the VLD style of bullet that we are discussing by the way. Now I might be mistaken and all Berger bullets might indeed be good for game and indeed its not good to be hit with any bullet!

Barsness said that the VLD bullet will penetrate a few inches into the game and then explode.

The VLD (Very Low Drag) design was done by a man that I admire. He is Bill Davis who writes now and then for the American Rifleman or has in the past. Way back when computers first became 'public' Davis sent me programs in Basic language for the Powley Formula and a trajectory program that he wrote.

The VLD bullet as I understand it has a very thin jacket and very soft core but it somehow penetrates and then flies apart when inside. Of course all this is general theory but Barsness and others have shot a lot of beasts proving that they work.

Here is a Berger VLD video and indeed this group is shooting bull elk. Berger VLD video

From the Berger site.

"Hunting Bullets

The MATCH VLD bullets are proving to be the most lethal big game hunting bullet available. (Watch Demo Clip) The VLD design incorporates a sharp nose that allows the bullet to penetrate up to 3 inches before it starts to expand. This delayed expansion results in a wound channel that is deep inside the vital area of any big game. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 80% to 90% of its weight into the surrounding tissue traveling as deep as 18 inches. This results in a massive wound cavity that creates the greatest possible amount of tissue damage and hemraging within the vital area (organs). This massive and extensive wound cavity result in the animal dropping fast. Our bullets don't poke through like an arrow but instead expend all of their energy right where it is most effective, inside the animal. Bullets that poke through so that they can cause a blood trail are designed to result in a hunter tracking a wounded animal. Using the Berger VLD will result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot. You owe it to yourself to see how accurate and deadly the Berger VLD will be on your next hunt. To order a 30 minute video for $5 that provides more detail on the bullets, cartridge and velocity used to take several animals at a variety of ranges call 714-447-5456."

"Very Low Drag Bullets

Designed by Bill Davis, the VLD bullet is on the cutting edge of using bullet design for improved external ballistics. The VLD bullet is designed to provide less drop and drift than any bullet on the market today. This result makes the VLD an ideal choice for the medium to long-range target competition shooter. If you stand behind a shooter using a VLD bullet and watch the bullet's vapor trail you will see a flatter trajectory than with non-VLD bullets (assuming similar velocity). VLD bullets can shoot well at any OAL. If you do not achieve the accuracy level you are looking for by jumping a VLD bullet then you may find that your rifle will shoot VLDs more accurately if the bullet touches the rifling when the round is chambered. VLD bullets may need a little more tweaking than non VLDs but when they are working well they are tough to beat."

Berger VLD link



Berger Bullets founder
Walt Berger with a New Zealand Stag

I use Berger 168VLD's in my 7mm RM. 64.5 grains of RE19 GM210m primer in Winchester brass for 2990 FPS and they are loaded to the lands.

I used them for all but 1 animal in Africa in June ( report posted in Africa Hunting Reports ). I did have some exits on large animals, Kudu and Gemsbok. I have used them here on whitetails, blackbuck, feral hogs and Axis deer. On one Axis buck I did not get an exit wound, it was quartering in at about 55 yards. Most of the animals I have shot with this combo have been "bang flops" The Gemsbok went about 100yds and the Kudu took a dive over a cliff.
Just two weekends ago my buddy and I both took Mule deer with bergers my 7mm load and he was shooting 190VLD's out of a 300 WM both died on the spot. No exit wounds. ( hunt report posted in American Hunting ).

Just my experience, but my experience has been good.

quote:

Our bullets don't poke through like an arrow but instead expend all of their energy right where it is most effective, inside the animal. Bullets that poke through so that they can cause a blood trail are designed to result in a hunter tracking a wounded animal. Using the Berger VLD will result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot.

That is it exactly, Thank You.

quote:

Our bullets don't poke through like an arrow but instead expend all of their energy right where it is most effective, inside the animal.[/b]Excellent statement that describes the Bullet Design as either one which expands on Impact to a Huge Diameter or is Extremely Fragile. I know a lot of people that like this type of Bullet Design.

[quote]Bullets that poke through so that they can cause a blood trail are designed to result in a hunter tracking a wounded animal.

Absolutely pitiful and pathetic. This simply says if a Bullet "Exits" it results in nothing but "wounded" Game. That comment indicates a complete lack of first-hand experience and maturity as a Hunter by whoever decided to put those words together in an ad. Perhaps it is intended to "fool, trick, bamboozle, denton, pt barnum, ect" the Beginners that simply don't know any better.

quote:

Using the Berger VLD will result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot.

The problem is that even if the Bullet does not Exit, not all Game will drop in it's tracks. Anyone with any actual Hunting Experience at all will recognige that as complete ignorance.

Those ads need to be rewritten.

Its good to see the 270 bullets now in VLD form.