I'm considering this round for a long range deer rifle. I like the idea of pushing a 27cal bullet faster than the 270Win can without going to the long weatherby. Tikka now chambers their T3 in this round.

Anyone familular with this round yet? How fast can I push it safely? Any issues with re-loading?

For all practical purposes the WSM and the WSSM will not do anything the .270 Winchester can't do, except possibly with a shorter bolt throw...

I disagree with Steve's statement. I shot a .270 Win for many years and recently bought a Savage in .270 WSM , To me, 200-300 fps is enough of an advantage to make the round worthwhile. Some of the boys over on Shortmag's are getting 3300 fps with 140 grainers. The best I could ever get with the 140s in my Model 700 .270 was 2875 fps. That's kind of like saying a .300 Win Mag has no advantage over a .30-06. I like the .277 bore size and plan on using mine for deer and antelope. It seems to be an extremely accurate caliber.

bowhuntr

[ 11-30-2003, 04:16: Message edited by: bowhuntrrl ]

Win. model 70 super shadow 24" barrel with win. supreme .270 wsm ammo 130 gr. Ballistic silvertip 3275fps. shooting 3 shot groups at 100yds, 5 groups average 2 1/8" Also saw a Browning A bolt being shot, groups averaged between 1 3/4" to 2"

[ 12-04-2003, 03:59: Message edited by: 243winxb ]

All the velocity in the world will not kill an animal if you miss. And, 3-shot, 2-1/8" groups at 100 yards is below satisfactory.

I load for .270 on a regular basis...

Bullet:Sierra 140 Grain Hollow Point Boat Tail
Powder: 53.1 grains of IMR-4350
Primer: Winchester WLR
Case: Winchester
Firearm: Winchester 70
Velocity: 2944 FPS @ 15' from muzzle
Accuracy: 5-shot less than 1" at 200 yards.

I'll give up a few FPS any day for that type of improved accuracy...

The WSM boasts both a performance increase and superb accuracy. That it does so in a tidy package,doesn't hurt my feelings.

Accuracy results cited,are a function of the particular rifle,rather than the particular chambering.

To hint that the WSM hull is a compromise in mechanical accuracy potential,is sheer folly............

I have 2 Abolts in the WSM's. One in 270 WSM and another in 300 WSM. I haven't been really impressed with either one. I know about the reports of some of hte velocities people have been getting with the WSM's, but so far, I haven't gotten any of these rifles. I've have also had a M70 Featherweight in 300 WSM. The 270 WSM with the factory 130gr BST ran 3196 fps. The 300 WSM abolt with 180 gr factory loads ran 2981 fps. I have had to work to get loads to match the factory velocities. I'm like Steve, I can't really see too much difference over a 270 win. My best 270 WSM load is a 140gr nosler Accubond with 64 gr RL22. Velocity is 3058 fps and 1.0" groups @100 yds. My pet 270 win load for my old Abolt I is : 140gr Ballistic tip, 58gr H4831, velocity - 2960 fps, groups - .710-.875 @ 100 yds. I'm keeping the 270 WSM just for grins I guess, but the 300 is going. In the Abolt, the 300 has more recoil than I want to put up with. For a magnum round, I like the 7mm Rem. Mag. I have had 3 different 7mm Mags and I regret getting rid of them. They were some of the easiest guns to load for I've ever had. All 3 were accurate (sub MOA) and the recoil was very tolerable. I'm thinking about trading the 300 WSM in for new 7mm Mag.

[ 12-04-2003, 04:56: Message edited by: br6ppc ]

I enjoy 175MK's at 3050fps out of a 24" 300WSM and especially dote on 120XBT's outta a 22" 7SAUM at 3350fps.

Accuracy in both is exemplary and I attribute that to sound rifles(both Remington based),in sound stocks(McMillan) and good glass(Leupold).

The S/S Seven 7SAUM will hover at 1/2"-3/4" and the 700 short 300WSM will shoot cloverleafs via it's Hart tube.

Having (5) 7-08's in the stable,and also a 24" 284Win(all on Remingtons),I can say that the 7SAUM brings much performance to the table,despite it's abbreviated spout,as compared to any of the others.

The 300WSM absolutely stomps the 308Win,kicks the '06 in the nuts and treads on the heels of the 300Win. Not too shabby IMHO,for a mainstream short action offering.

The SAUM/WSM clan simply has the capacity to do nice things and in sound rifles,can demonstrate stellar accuracy potential.

None of that is subject to dispute,as it is simply fact................

Well I'm one of the fellows that broke the 3300fps mark with 140gr HPBT's in the 270WSM, with mirrored accuracy to my regular 270 Win at 2900fps.
Infact with the 270WSM I actually cranked some 140's to 3400fps-plus, measured over two different chronographs.
FYI:
This in just an off the rack untouched M-70 "Coyote".

I think this discussion proves yet again, that actual velocities achieved are very much a result of both chambering and the individual rifle. Some rifles are "fast" some are not, who knows what the difference may be, and who knows how to pick one or the other??

As to whether a .270 Win does what a .270 WSM will do, this is a pretty individual argument as well. After all, the .270 Win has been doing the job for close to 80 years by now, so a lot of people see little reason to switch. On the other hand, the world does not stand still. To some degree or the other, we are all attracted towards new options, and the firearms industry needs new products to survive in what is essentially a non-growning market. I don't see anything wrong with being fascinated with better performance (real or imagined), and many a good campfire discussion will evolve around this issue in the years to come.
- mike

Pressures can be skewed,barrel length can be skewed,projectile selection can be skewed and then there is the potential for sleight of hand via smoke and mirrors.

However,one thing remains a constant and it is the sole true performance indicator and that is simply capacity. Doubly so within the spectrum thus far discussed.

The SAUM/WSM ilk operate squarely within the capacity region,that their volumes exceed everything else operating within their realm(short actions and excluding the more obscure proprietary offerings,that are startin' to peter out).

Those short fat offerings also have the capacity to trump the Old Warhorse('06) and it's spawn. As an aside,the 7SAUM has a capacity slightly exceeding the 280AI. The 7WSM more capacious yet and closer to the 7mmRemmag's territory.

So I see them operating in a handy bandwidth,as one has multi options in their application. He can opt a short/tidy rifle chambered in something short/fat and realize a most convincing sledgehammer. Or if inclined,opt more barrel length so as to eek performance potential and allow the available capacity to stretch it's legs.

I'm partial to rifles within the middle of that spectrum and that is my subjective decision based upon my needs/wants/lusts/cravings. The gains are real.

Within that middle ground(barrels 22-24"),a guy can sorta have his cake and eat it too. The increased capacity is realized through increased performance,the implement remains handy and the tradeoffs are few to none.

Now none of those things may be of any interest, to anyone but me. But I find the above attributes coupled with excellent accuracy,to be a package that is difficult to snub.

For the gent sourcing a new rifle,I believe that added performance from a tidy package,is worthy of consideration.

Your mileage may vary...................

I couldn't agree more... the WSM's have their place and do perform within the constraints of their case capacity. That generally means around 150 fps faster than their 06' based bretheren in same barrel length's. I'd also add that everyone I've worked with (factory rifles all) have proven exceptionally accurate even with factory loads... this has never been the case with stock factory rifles I've played with over the years. Obviously on ocassion you'll get one that'll digest a certain brand of ammo and produce nice groups. However, the WSM's across the board seem to do this with boring regularity. If I were a non-handloader looking for an accurate factory rifle I'd look no further than a WSM of some flavor. I'll also add that, for me, the "performance window" of the WSM's are about ideal... in a 24" bbl the 300 WSM's I've used will all push a 180 right at 3,000 fps (+-) depending on bullet make/powder... what more do you really need in a 30 cal?

BA

Stonecreek, part of the problem with the WSM's is the action's they've been chambered in have been "retrofitted" to accomodate them... that's a poor compromise at best. I'm looking forward to handling a Kimber 8400 as it's designed from the ground to accomodate the WSM. Also I'll add the new Ruger's (gasp) handle the WSM better than any I've yet seen. Because of their much maligned use of casting technology they've been able to widen the mag box area of their SA to accomodate the round... the 77 MKII SA holds three rounds down COMFORTABLY... it's the only one I've seen that'll do this. I tested one at the gunstore with dummy rounds... it fed perfectly without a hitch.

Leave it to Ruger... If I were planning a custom WSM/SAUM that's the action I'd use.

Good point, Brad. The cartridge designers pushed the envelope of what the existing actions would accomodate with the SAUM/WSM line. The result was inadequate magazine capacity and "iffy" feeding. A wider magazine al la the new Ruger and maybe a feed ramp designed especially for the short/fat cartridges would/will improve their behavior and reliability.

I'm still not sure that it's worth the 5/8ths of an inch or so you save in action length to have a cartridge slightly less powerful than the tried and proven crop cartridges formerly called "short magnums" like the 7mm Remington and .300 Winchester, etc. For the slight difference in action length saved you make the trade-off of at least one less cartridge in magazine capacity, more expensive brass and ammunition, and a little less velocity potential. But to each his own -- if it turns your crank, go for it.

StoneCreek... no argument from me! The short-fat thing is mostly hairsplitting for a hunter. Still, in a factory rifle using factory ammo I believe the WSM/SAUM wins the accuracy contest hands-down. Their chamber tolerances seem to be held close and the factory ammo is wonderful. Too, the WSM/SAUM's big, broad shoulder for ample headspacing may be part of the reason as well as fairly short throats. Factory (non-custom) rifles chambered for the belted mags often have unbelieveably sloppy chambers and overly long throats... accuracy often is lacking! Obviously either in a quality custom rifle will shoot good factory ammo very accurately.

I admit, I sorta dig the short fatties...

Mike, I'd never order an action or buy a rifle chambered for a WSM/SAUM without being able to test its ability to hold and feed rounds first-hand... even if it's made in Montana! I'm just not convinced that many CO's have mastered the ability to "feed and house" these rounds correctly... this has definately given these rounds a bad, and I believe, undeserved reputation. The WSM/SAUM Ruger SA is very different from a standard Ruger SA... the feed ramp, mag box, follower, etc are all different. Ruger sure is slow to get advertised products to market but someone there certainly did their homework! Too, their customer service is the best of the BIG 3 in America. While not a "purist's" rifle, the M77 MKII, with a new trigger and some judicious polishing, is a first-rate hunter's action.

All the best,

BA

Fair enough Brad, I was just having a dig at you anyway . Your reasons are sound, and although Ruger does not show up on the screen that often when it comes to custom rifle components, you seem to have researched your subject and made up your mind accordingly. Nothing wrong with that!
- mike

Mike, all good-hearted digs are welcome

Thanks guys.

A few things to clear up here.

The T3 magazine for the 270WSM holds three rounds.

I've read recently that they don't use a short action for these short mags.

I do want to test the feed on one but where I live I will have to special order one with a down payment.

More to think about.