quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
See the link in the first para of 'Travel With Ammunition' Here: http://www.shakariconnection.c...l-with-firearms.html

I emailed the regulatory guys at the UK NRA last night & received a reply today:

quote:

This sounds like EU regulation 185/2010, which caused a stir around April last year. This was an unexpected new EU Regulation ‘banning’ the transport of ammunition in hold baggage on aircraft, but following a successful outcome after lobbying by the BSSC, GTA and BASC: the UK implemented the permitted derogation, so ammunition can be transported in hold baggage as before on flights from UK airports. Any EU country may introduce such a derogation, provided it does itself regulate the carriage of ammunition. The situation is not known for all other EU countries, but some, including Germany, did take advantage of the derogation. This action by the Commission was seen as precipitate and several states were unhappy at the way in which this had been handled. For the time being, anyone intending to fly to another (or out of an) EU country with ammunition in his hold baggage is advised to check with his carrier to ensure that there will not be any problem at his destination or on the return flight (bringing back unused ammunition).

Looks like we're OK -for now.
The regulation itself needs removing though, because governments WILL implement it when they think they can get away with it.

Oddbod,

As we say on the site, the ban is currently being sporadically enforced (esp with TAP) which in some ways makes it even worse because no bugger knows if their ammo will get through or not but I see it as the first nail in the coffin and I'll bet it'll slowly be increasingly enforced.... otherwise, why have the law there in the first place? ...... Even if they do waive the law, I'm bloody sure it won't stop some ignorant or anti hunting check in agents refusing carriage of the ammo.

I agree that the law needs to be withdrawn. However, I don't know about you, but I don't know of a single EU law that has ever been withdrawn...... those bastards are in the business of creating an ever increasing number of laws to stuff us up not reducing them to make life simpler.

I'll also bet that if there's a single reportable incident where ammo of any sort is to blame, that ban will be enforced overnight whether we like it or not!

Report says "primer caps". Could these be percusion caps for black powder ignition? If so could rough handling set them off?

Ok, here's the reply to the first of two emails I've sent:

Dear Mr. Robinson,

We have received your inquiry about the hazardous materials regulations (HMR) (49 CFR Parts 171-180).

The HMR prescribes the requirements of the Department of Transportation governing the offering and transportation of hazardous materials in interstate, intrastate, and foreign commerce by rail car, aircraft, motor vehicle, and vessel. While we cannot provide an exhaustive list of each applicable requirement, we suggest you review section(s) 172.101 for additional information on the Hazardous Materials Table and Quantity Limitations for Aircraft. The hazardous materials regulations are available at the following URL:

http://hazmat.dot.gov/regs/rules.htm

If you require additional assistance, you may contact the Hazardous Materials Information Center, which is staffed with regulatory specialists who can quickly answer your questions by phone, Monday through Friday, 9 AM - 5 PM EST at +1(202) 366-4488.

Sincerely,

Neal S., Hazardous Materials Specialist

An e-mail response from this office is considered informal guidance. Formal guidance may be requested in accordance with 49 CFR 105.20. http://hazmat.dot.gov/infocent.htm

The link takes me to:

Here

And eventually to:

This


Clicking B for Black Powder, takes me to:

Black Powder

Which tells me that black powder in any form, including black powder for small arms is forbidden.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

D Black powder for small arms 4.1 NA0027 I 4.1 70 None 170 None Forbidden Forbidden E


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note also that under the exceptions catagory, it says "NONE"- Which means there is NO special allowance whatsoever for the carriage of BP in ANY types of container, including metallic cases.

I'm still waiting to hear from the other enquiry I made....... IF (note the big IF, I get a reply, I'll post it.

Believe me, I've looked into this for some years and am absolutely convinced that it is not only illegal to carry BP or BP substitute on any commercial aircraft but even more importantly, to do so is to seriously endanger aircraft, passengers, crew and people on the ground.

Again, let me make it quite clear that I'm not saying this to be awkward or make it difficult for hunters who want to travel with BP etc. That's actually the last thing I want to do.

The reason I'm saying this is that I want to try to make sure that no hunter ever ends up in jail for breaking the law and FAR more importantly than even that, I'm concerned that aircraft, passengers and crew stay safely in the air and don't end up in a smoking crater in the ground.