Here are my OCW results. This is the first time I tried this method. I like it. Tell me what you think I should use as an OCW. I think it should be 44.5 g's. I hope you can see the bullet holes.one hole.Targets 3&5 have 2 hole-3 shot groups. The targets are labeled in the corner for the group number. The dots on the graph represent the velocity for each bullet in the 3 shot group. Then I averaged them and drew a line.

Can someone delete my first 2 OCW posts. Newbie photo poster at the controls!!!!!

Only the party who posted a message can delete it. Go to the tool bar at top of your post and click the one with the pencil and pad.

Regards,
hm

Your data looks inconclusive to me. I usually use 5 shot groups, the results becomes more obvious.

SavageShooter,

Your post brings up an interesting point...the "small sample" statistical error gremlin. one series of three shot groups is really just an anecdote. Shooter error or other unexplained flyer gremlins could completely invalidate a series like this.....

I'd like to see this exact same series repeated just to see how much consistency there is. I bet there's a good chance the same loads, repeated a second time would not yield the same result/interpretation. But it might!

Hey Green788 (Dan), have you experimented with five shot groups and repeated tests of loads while overlaying the targets from time one to time two or three?

Fetchmax, did you shoot these round robin style? What was your cleaning sequence? Start with a clean cold barrel every time? fouling shots?

Thanks

Roger

Cleaned and dried barrel b4 starting. Let barrel cool while I walked down to target between shots. Cleaned the rifle after every 7 shots. I did shoot round robin. Shot 1st & 3rd grp from low powder charge to high. 2nd grp High powder charge to low charge. Grps 3 & 4 had the same average velocity, with most of the individual shots (3 & 4) having the same velocities. Thats why I thought that would be the OCW. 44.5 g's. How could my groups be inconclusive when I had some that had 3 shots into 2 holes. Thanks

Fetchmax,

The question is, what is the probability that those groups occured due to chance? How many times have you shot a nice little group, then, using the same load/batch of ammo shot a stinker? Like I said, repeat the test and see if the results are consistent....

Was wondering if I could get Green 788 to take a look at this. I do have some brass prepped ready to try again. Just would like some input from the expert. Thanks

Okay...

I'm sorry for the delay, work has been extremely tough this week (another story)...

You're right on with the 44.3 grain OCW.

What folks are failing to understand is that you have a nine shot group here. Look at targets 2, 3, and 4. All nine of these shots share a POI on the target. I would pretty much guarantee that the vertical string of the group on target number 3 is a fluke, since you could cover all six shots on target 2 overlaid on target 4 with a half dollar. That's a wide margin of comfort--and with a temperature stable powder like Varget, you've got a year 'round load there.

Stay with the 44.3 grain charge, and depth tune until you tighten the groups even further.

Looks like you did it ...

By the way, the liklihood that the 44.3 grain charge will continue to print tight groups in the same spot on the target is extremely close to 100 percent... The load is stable, and I see no reason to waste material on further proofing. Just stay with the 44.3 grain charge and use .003" increment changes in seating depth until the groups are as tight as possible.

You could also just forget the depth tuning and call it done. You're already getting some good groups there.

Keep us posted on further results, but your execution of the OCW load development method, as far as I'm concerned, is textbook perfect.

Dan

Roger,

I haven't tested 5 shot groups using this method per se, but what I generally do when I believe I have identified an OCW is I go to the maximum range at which I'll be using the load, and shoot a few three shot groups. In each of these three shot groups, I would use the low, normal, and high charge. In fetchmax's case, let's say he wants to use this load out to 350 yards. He would then shoot one shot of 43.9 grains, another shot of 44.3 grains, and a third shot--into that same group--of 44.7 grains. If the recipe is an OCW recipe, it should group at or very near 3.5 inches (1 MOA) at that range--in spite of the varied powder charges.

Then for really getting serious, a seven shot group at maximum range using carefully weighed charges of the OCW (44.3 grains in this case) should provide good long range practice while proofing the load at max range.

Thanks for the interest,

Dan

Thanks Green 788 and others for you inpt. I was off a little on my analysis but I see what green788 is saying now and its obvious. I will use this method from now on for future load development. I will try the 3 different loads like you said just to verify at longer ranges when I get a chance. I will post future load developments also.

I guess the problem I have with this is that I can't tell you how many times I've shot a 5 shot group that resulted in 3 shots touching with one or two flyers. To me this would not be an optimized load. I've used the OCW method with 5 shot groups and the results were clear as night and day!

I would suggest trying some Rlr 15.

Here is my group shot today with 1 ea of 43.9, 44.3 and 44.7g's. They shot at the same impact. I had adjusted my scope 4 MOA to bring group above bullseye. I do believe this is my true OCW just like Green 788 said. I don't have access to a 300yd range right now so this will suffice. And yes I do occasionally have fliers with any size groups I shoot, but I also have shot a lot of excellant 3 shot groups. I am usually a pretty good shot off a rest on a bench at 100 yds. I won't claim the same at longer ranges though. I will try and play with the seating depth a little and see if my groups change.

[ 03-29-2003, 17:36: Message edited by: fetchmax ]

44gr in my sons 20" M70 Classic Compact is a great load too. I shot a 1.1" group at 300 yards with it the first time I tried it too! It always shoots under moa with it at 300 yards. Try the Federal factory 165SGK load, it's a bit faster and just as accurate too. I remember it was 43.5gr of ball powder, what powder exactly I can't remember.

47gr Varget and a 150 XLC spells sub-moa groups in it too, it's a max load but didn't tighten up until right there though, it SHRANK by over half there too.


Forgot to add, the upper right sighter shot was before I dialed it over to shoot the 3 shot group. He killed his first moose with that load a month later at 200 yards on the money too! 59" monster at that! He just turned 11yrs old too. He's lucky I didn't let him sleep in that morning.

[ 03-27-2003, 08:31: Message edited by: Brent Moffitt ]