In general, can I probably get smaller groups by removing the expander ball in my full-length sizing dies (so that it doesn't pull the case neck out of alignment)? Are there any downsides to not using the expander ball?

[ 10-20-2003, 22:56: Message edited by: BigBrass ]

In general, maybe.

The downside is when you have thick necked brass. This results in the die necking the brass down more than needed. This is when the expander ball expands the brass out the most. You can pull the neck crooked by expanding it with the ball.

Problem is, you can also push thing crooked easily if you have a neck that isn't expanded enough.

Another problem is if your brass is not concentric: removing the ball will mean the runout will be increased in the final product.

So, pick your poison. Best thing to do is to match your brass to your dies, so you size about .002" more than your loaded dimension. JMO, Dutch.

I bought a concentricity gauge and the instructions said [rightly] that the expander ball would be the most likely culprit.

I have stopped using the expander ball for 257 RAI and .223 Rem both with big improvements in the concentricity and accuracy of the loaded ammo.

I will try it on my other cartridges as soon as I get back to working on the accuracy of those rifles:
.222, .243, 6.5x55, 30-30, 303 Sav, .308, 30-06, 7.62x39mm, 303 Brit, 7.62x54R, and 8x57mm.

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

BigBrass:
If you want to try and resize without the expander ball have you thought about trying the Redding bushing dies? This die uses a replaceable bushing to size the neck. There is no expander ball in this die.

You take a cartridge with a bullet seated in it. Then you measure the diameter of the neck with a micrometer. Redding recommends you use a bushing that is .002" to .003" smaller than that measurement.

Just a thought.

Thanks for your comments, guys. What about just loosening the "stem" that holds the expander ball in my full-length dies, so that it can wiggle back and forth a bit, and then proceeding to resize leaving the expander ball stem loose? It seems as though that would cause the expander ball to "float" a little in the die during the resizing process. Would that give me the benefit of using the expander ball without incurring the disadvantage of having it pull the case neck out of alignment?

No problem loading without the expander ball, if you are loading boat tail bullets...

If you are loading flatbase, then you may experience a couple of crunched cases or shaved bullets.

I agree the Redding bushing "S" dies are good, very good in fact, but if you want really concentric reloads get yourself a set of Wilson knock out dies. I now have four sets of the neck sizing dies and swear by them. What's especially nice was it let me break free of the press also. I just use a little rawhide mallet. You know, the press can cause a lack of concentriucity as well as the dreaded expander ball. Best wishes to all.

Cal - Montreal

http://precisionreloading.com/KMProducts.htm

Try the Expanderiron, and throw away the expander ball..sakofan..good luck

i do not use the expander ball; i use a lyman "M" die to expand the neck after sizing. the expanding plug may need to be reduced in diameter slightly, since it is design mainly for lead bullets, check the diameter of the plug and the bullet being seated and go from there.

Years ago my expander rod bent could not find out why my 250-3000 sav was not shooting in same holes.I rolled the rod accross table and saw wobble.

New rod and bullets back in same holes again that was long ago.

NOW 2017 went back loading again...250-3000 shooting in same holes last week.shot 5 more got VERTICAL stringing ..ouch.What now?

Took those 5 shells and resized them on first one heard a drop in shell..Here the expanding ball on rod unscrewed and fell inside shell..

Guess what caused my VERTICAL stringing !

So with rod loose or bent it or ball loose it can screw up your groups bigtime .....

I proved it by 50 years loading that little honey of gun 250-3000 with 87 gr speer bullet if it does not shoot almost in same holes you better look at something is wrong ...