In addition to adding 1 more ring, 3 to 4, the overall length stays the same but the ogive measures .025 difference in my chamber. I will have to seat the new ones .025 deeper to get the same distance to lands. Will head out this weekend and try them and report back here. I hope they shoot as well as the first ones which went under 1/2 MOA for 3 shot groups consistently.
Posts: 1520 | Location: NC | Registered: 10 June 2002
Quote: In addition to adding 1 more ring, 3 to 4, the overall length stays the same but the ogive measures .025 difference in my chamber. I will have to seat the new ones .025 deeper to get the same distance to lands. Will head out this weekend and try them and report back here. I hope they shoot as well as the first ones which went under 1/2 MOA for 3 shot groups consistently.
Do you lay the bullet right on the lands?
Posts: 255 | Location: Wurtsboro,NY.USA | Registered: 11 May 2003
Not sure if you mean did I lay the bullet on the lands when measureing or loading. I measured with a Stony Point Comparator which every handloader should own. It measures length to firm contact with the lands. I load them .050 off the lands.
Posts: 1520 | Location: NC | Registered: 10 June 2002
Great you got to be kidding me. I just worked up a great .5" load with my 300Rum with the older 3 ring. You know it will shoot a tad different now. I don't see any information on there sight about 4 rings. Are you sure its just not the 200gr or longer bullets?
That has been the way Barnes has made bullets for years. When they first came out I bought some 180 grain X-bullets to shoot in my 300 Wby Mag. They did pretty good, so I bought another box. Hell, the hollow point was much larger, the ogive had changed, good grief!
I tried them on some wild hogs with little success and gave up on them. My buddy tried them on several elk in New Mexico (he lives there and gets landowner tags for cow elk in the winter). He was much dissapointed as well.
I have no use for Barnes X bullets of any sort, frankly.
I tried shooting steel silhouettes with them just for fun. The same silhouettes (rams) that Hornady and Sierra bullets put on the ground easily, the Barnes just bounced off of and did not knock them over. Oh Well!
Keep messing with them if you like, I am done.
R F
Posts: 1220 | Location: Hanford, CA, USA | Registered: 12 November 2000
RF - I hear you. I never could figure out what was broken and needed fixin'. I always figured that Barnes was expecting lead to be banned from hunting bullets - just like lead shot was banned from waterfowl shells. They just wanted to be the first to have a non-lead bullet.
Quote: Not sure if you mean did I lay the bullet on the lands when measureing or loading. I measured with a Stony Point Comparator which every handloader should own. It measures length to firm contact with the lands. I load them .050 off the lands.
I put the bullet on the lands,no free bore.
Posts: 255 | Location: Wurtsboro,NY.USA | Registered: 11 May 2003
Well, I confirmed it with barnes bullets. They are changing all thier TSX to the 4 ring. Told me it actually improved accuracy and velocity with the same load. Kinda hard for me to believe. I guess I will find out. He said they didn't change the shape however. I told him of your account.
Quote: Well, I confirmed it with barnes bullets. They are changing all thier TSX to the 4 ring...
Hey bigcountry, Did he mention if they are going to change the name?
If you happen to speak to them in the future, invite them to stop by here and look around. It seems as if they can hear both the good and the bad about their designs.
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001
his email is tyh@barnesbullets.com. Seemed very enthusiastic. Just not sure how knowledgeable he is. He said there was no Orgive change, but the 180gr TSX that came last night, had a note specifically in the box explaining a change. Then I went and measured, and sure enough, my results match KevinNY. You will have to seat these bullets .024" deeper to have the the same distance to the lands. Which may be a good thing. Ty invited all comparisons. He said he was very curious on how shooters were doing with the change. No name change however.
Also, another thing got me was he said as a general rule. Most loads are fine 2gr below what manuals say for "regular bullets". But that depends on the gun. Might work for a 308Win, but definatly not near it for a 300RUM.
It seems I can never get the same Bullet twice in a row from Barnes. Since it usually takes extensive load development for me to get them to shoot even moderately well, I've spent a fortune on them over the years.
Unless I'm going for cape buffalo or other dangerous game I'll stick with more common bullets.
Hey bigcountry, Thanks. Does seem a bit strange they would continue to call it a "Triple Shock" with the change to 4-rings.
Huuuummmm, they could still add a few more rings, put a small squirt of lead in the nose and call it a "North Fork"! Nope, that is already taken.
Maybe they will eventually decided to change the name of the 4-ringer and call it a UBATS-OMQUAT (Usta Be A Triple Shock - Once Upon A Time).
"Usta" - Southern for "Used To Be" and I just tossed in the "MQ" for grins.
I really dislike it when you can not look at the outside of a box of Bullets and know that a "Major Design Change" has occurred since the last time you bought them. Of course, I still have some of the "Original Fred Barnes" copper tubing bullets on the shelf. So, I can wait(hold my money in my billfold) until they let the Design mature and settle.
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001
You know this was Barnes second chance I am giving them. And it is discourageing. I am going to give them a shot tomorrow. Guy at barnes said I should get velocity gains even though pressure will go down. Now come on. How is this. I could see the pressure goeing down and getting velocity gains by change in loads.
Quote: ...Guy at barnes said I should get velocity gains even though pressure will go down. ...How is this?...
Hey bigcountry, That sounds like a very interesting topic for a new thread. Not because it will "skew" this one, but because you could structure the "Topic Field" to perhaps draw more responses.
If he meant "using the same Load" and getting higher Velocity and lower Pressure, then that is indeed an interesting situation.
Let's see here, if the TSX Bullets were experiencing more "Blow-by" than the UBATS-OMQUAT ( Devil made me do it! HA)..... uh, the new 4-ringer, then Velocity would go up with the new Design because more of the Gas Energy is transfered to the Bullet.
And in order to get the Pressure "reduced" apparently the "actual" Bearing Surface was reduced, or an alloy change was made, or a Temper change to the Alloy, or maybe a new clear coat to slick them up, or maybe he was pullin' your leg, or maybe something I've not thought of! (Probably of the last guess.)
...
Maybe your contact at Barnes would jump in this Thread and tell us. Didn't Connie Brooks used to post here on occasion until the "rudeness" ran her off?
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001
Well I have to say that the guy at barnes wasn't kidding. I tried the 4 ring 180gr TSX with the exact same charge, 65.0 grains of IMR4350, at .040 off the lands, FED210 primers. The "Old" TSX went 2905fps into consistent 1/2" groups @100yds. The "NEW" 180gr TSX went 2972 with an extreme spread of 12FPS into .567" 3 shot group. Same accuracy, 67 fps faster, I'm not complaining. Loading them up and heading to Africa.
Posts: 1520 | Location: NC | Registered: 10 June 2002
Ok, he told me the same thing. How is that. They reduced the bearing surface of the bullet and moved the ogive up and the same load will be faster? I just loaded up the new ones. Well see on Friday.
Devil made me do it! HA)..... uh, the new 4-ringer, then Velocity would go up with the new Design because more of the Gas Energy is transfered to the Bullet.
