Hi everyone, new here and was trying to find out something. I have a Howa 1500 chambered in 30.06 and the last time I went to the range I tried some 1965 Lake City match ammo. Well my rifle really liked this load as it put everyone into a quarter size hole at 50yds. Seeing as how this ammo is no longer available I was trying to replicate it and am wanting to find out what kind of powder was used at that time and rather or not it (or suitable replacement) was available to the reloader. Thanks!

According to an old copy of Cartridges of the World, at that time the US Army used IMR-4895 powder, and a non canister powder as well.

LLS

Finding the match bullet to complete the load will be the tough part.

If I remember correctly, the bullet was a 173 grain match grade. Made for the armed forces only.. There are some still floating around.
Usually in estate sales or the like.

muck

quote:

Originally posted by sierra2:
According to an old copy of Cartridges of the World, at that time the US Army used IMR-4895 powder, and a non canister powder as well.

LLS

I believe this is correct but wouldn't confine myself withg this in your Howa.....you can do better.....Rl-22, H-414, IMR (OR H)4350 are among the powders that can create sweet music in the 30-06....get a box of Sierra matchkings about 170-180 grain and see what happens.....you might not want to shoot the Lake City stuff again!

Thanks all!

If it helps any, the box says. M72, Bullet 173 grains, Velocity 2640 f.p.s.

Vapodog, I will give those a try sometime.

According to the F.C. Barnes book "Cartridges of The World", the M72 cartridge was loaded with a 175 grain bullet and 50.0 grains of IMR 4895. Chronographed at 78' from the muzzle, velocity was 2640 +or-30 fps. Spark was provided by FA961 or FA1023 primers and cases were marked either "MATCH" or "NM" The mean radius maximum average was said to be 3.5" at 600 yards.

On the modern side of things, I think you'd be remiss if you didn't try VV N-160 and one of Berger's fine bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
According to the F.C. Barnes book "Cartridges of The World", the M72 cartridge was loaded with a 175 grain bullet and 50.0 grains of IMR 4895. Chronographed at 78' from the muzzle, velocity was 2640 +or-30 fps. Spark was provided by FA961 or FA1023 primers and cases were marked either "MATCH" or "NM" The mean radius maximum average was said to be 3.5" at 600 yards.

On the modern side of things, I think you'd be remiss if you didn't try VV N-160 and one of Berger's fine bullets.

I'd sure work up slowly on that powder charge. Hodgdon manual lists 47 gr. of IMR 4895 and 48 gr. H 4895 as maximum loads with the 168's. Hornady shows loads for the M1 @ 47 gr. max.


LC 62 M72 Match ammo used a 173 gr. boat tail bullet at the above velocity. I pulled an M 72 cartridge down and found 48 gr. of ???? (was longer grains than 4895 & I won't venture a guess as this can get you in trouble).

Shot a lot of NM competition in years past and it was important to duplicate the NM load since leg matches often issued (M2 or M72) ammo and did not allow sighters. I found that 47 gr. of H 4895 behind a 168 gr. Sierra Match King in GI brass and a Fed. 210M primer duplicates the M72 Match ballistics; (same zeoroes @ 200, 300 & 600 yds). As usual, start low & work up. This was before Sierra came out with the 175 gr. Match King, which would probably be a bit better at longer ranges. The match kings are a much better bullet than the M72.

Having said that, I prefer a full case of powder or close to it and found a great load with H 450 behind a 190 gr. Match King for 600 to 1000 yds. Unfortunately, H 450 is no longer available. There may be better choices today, but IMR 4350 was my LR powder of choice before H 450 in the '06 and I tend to stick to what has proven successful (if it ain't broke, don't fix it) .

Regards,
hm

Thanks again.

hm1996, I think I will try a 175 grain match king with a charge of IMR 4350 when I reload next. That would be a good starting point I think.

LL: Excellent choice IMHO. My favorite 600 yard load w/168 gr. Match Kings and IMR 4350 was 53.0 gr. for a vel. of 2660 (very close to M72). This was from a 26" target barrel.

This was before I switched to the H 450/190 gr. load.

Wound up my HP shooting w/a bit over 16# of H450 on the shelf; just loaded up a ladder test with H450 & 100 gr. bullets for a new AR 15 in 243 WSSM. Hoping it performs as well in the WSSM as it did in the '06.

Regards,
hm

30 - 06 and heavier bullets ( 165 - 168 - 180 grs ) spell "4350".

56 grs is max with a 180 grs bullet ( tested in different rifles )

AA and IMR or H: take your pick!

Except for a semi auto: there somthing quicker burning is on order, 2520 or 4895 or 4064 ( coarse! ) or Varget, but there I have few experiences.

H

LC Match 65 - 69 vintage IMR 4895 173 grain projectiles . Projectiles can still be had from time to time from CMP ( pulled lots ) I picked up a couple of K a couple of years ago .

4895 is GOOD STUFF . There are how ever as good or better choices out there as well as 160 - 180 grain pellets as others have mentioned .



Shot straight know your target . ...

I'll quote (loosely) someone here and see if anyone can identify the source....

"If a 30-06 bolt rifle won't shoot under an inch
with SOME (try several) 165gr bullet and 48grains of IMR-4064 don't consult a gunsmith, call an exorcist"

OR words to that close effect.


AD

4350 or 4831 will work well in that application but another super powder for the old 06 is W-760 or by the hodgdon name is H-414 which is the same powder......

My Sauer 202 in .30-06 shoots 165-180 bullets <.7 MOA with N 160 powder.