I had a problem with .224 Hornady 68BTHP Match bullets in that I could not get them to with in .012 when seating. I just got back from the range and had a bigger problem. I had worked up a load with 63gr Sierra VM, AA2230 and had one group of 1.9x.9 at 200yds with an A Bolt 223REM. and was zeroed in there. So I then started to to check my Hornady work up loads with AA2230 and IMR4320 both powders work well with the other bullets I have loaded, 52-63grains. My twist is slow for that 68gr bullet 1 in 12" but I wanted to try some. I could not hit paper at 200yds. Went to 100yds and nothing hit a 30"x30" paper. I placed a paper at about 30 yards and shot at the middle. My first bullet made 2 holes and my second made only 1 hole but almost 1/2" long. Why I shot a second after the first broke I do not know I guess I just could not believe it. When I went down to pick up that 100yd target there were small holes from srcraps of bullets. I then tried a couple of other loads and the gun is fine. I am editing now. I just called Hornady and explained this to a tech. He was not surprised at all, he just said the bullet is way too long for a 1 in 12 twist.

[ 04-02-2003, 20:53: Message edited by: DickPal ]

Right-you'd need about a 1/8" twist, or a little faster for that bullet. I had a 1/14" .223, and it would not even shoot the old 55-grain boattail GI load worth a hoot. But it was very accurte with the 55 Gr Sierra flatbase spitzer!

Not necessarily.

Remember that every rifle is a rule unto itself.

A friend of mine bought a Remington 700. It looks like a Mountain Rifle, but the PENCIL THIN barrel is 26 inches long. It is chambered in 22-250 with the standard 1:14 twist. He wanted me to load some 70 grain Speers for him. I tried to talk him out of it, based on the slow twist, but he insisted that the 70's were what he wanted. He said that he wanted near-maximum velocity, and that I should just do the best I could, accuracy wise.

After much head-scratching, I decided to try H-414. The first load I tried, about 95% of the maximum, was also the last load I tried. I couldn't get to the range, and a good bench immediately, so I shot prone in my backyard range.

WOW!!! First group was less than .500 inch !!!! It had to be a fluke !!!! Three subsequent groups in a row matched or bettered that!!!!!

When I did get to the range (VERY DAMN SOON, you can be sure!!), I fired three groups of three, all under .300 !!!! When I showed the test targets to the gun's owner, he wasted NO time in purchasing 6 more boxes of the same bullets, of the same lot, an 8 lb. keg of H-414, of the same lot, and paying me for a thousand primers from the same lot from my stash.

My friend now mostly uses factory loads in the rifle, saving the rounds I loaded for him for what he calls "serious stuff" or "survival". He occasionally shoots a few just to make sure the rifle is still "on". He says it is absolutely awesome to watch a 300 yard crow explode, or a feral dog "swell up and pop like a balloon", through the scope.

The 70 grain speer is a short for weight semispitzer, thats why it worked in your friends rifle. I suspect the bullet fragments that hit the paper were from ricochets from some of the 68's hitting the ground in front of the target. The opposite extreme is true as well, both 52 grains speers and 55 gr Hornady SX/SP's disintegrate when fired from my 1/7.7 twist service rifle in 223. Dont even scratch paper at 50 yards. I suspect the thin jackets aren't up to the rotation from the fast twist particularly in cut rifled barrels.

wingnut "Not necessarily.
Not necessarily. Remember that every rifle is a rule unto itself" Absolutely true! I have seen 1/12" Rem. 244's that would shoot 100 grain flatbase spitzers pretty well, and some that just would not do so!!

The whole subject of bullet stabilization is often oversimplified by some old formulas. As velocities go up, so does the rotational speed, and this stabilizes the bullet. I have seen a lot of loads at higher than normal velocity that stabilized well beyond the norm. The classic case was a 45-70 I rechambered to 45-120 in a Ruger. Conventional wisdom was that the 45-70 barrel would not stabilize heavy bullets. Not so. At 460 Wetherby velocities, even the 500 gr bullets stabilized in the slow twist barrel.