I've been studying on this a while (including reading a bunch of archived posts here), and I guess I'm just another new reloader on information overload.

I'm wanting to develop a load for my 300 WinMag for Mule Deer and maybe antelope, but I'm having a tough time finding a bullet that will handle the from in-your-lap to 400 yard shots I might find myself with.

My choice of bullets is driven by 3 factors, in descending order of importance: accuracy, penetration and expansion. The part I'm having trouble with is the proper balance of penetration and expansion over the extreme velocity ranges I'm looking at.

Here's what I've come up with so far: Given the extreme range of situations that I may be facing, I'm only looking at "premium" bullets. The polymer tipped bullets are just too fragile; all 3 of the bonded bullets I've studied (Swift, Hornday and Nosler) seem too soft at magnum velocity (over-expanding at the expense of penetration). The Swift A-Frame and Nosler Partition seem to have the opposite problem, under expanding on medium sized game. The Barnes X-Bullet started to look like the answer, but it's pretty universally trashed by people who have tried it.

Like I said, I'm on information overload and was hoping someone could help me untangle the confusing, conflicting reports I'm reading.

Mark

Try the Barns X Triple Shock. It will handle the push of your mag. Routinely get 90-95% weight retention, complete penetration and one shot kills. Definitely will NOT blow up.

I have no experience with the swift bullet but anything I've stuck a NP into has fallen down dead. I don't know where you heard that NP's don't open up on medium sized game but that certainly doesn't reflect my experiences with them. In my .300WM, I used the 200gr partition and I in fact did use it on mulies and antelope.

Among those who hunt a lot I haven't heard of any problems with Partitions not expanding. They are a fine bullet, in suitable wieghts, for anything you want to hunt. Original Barnes sometimes had accuracy problems in specific guns, they don't seem to have been as easy to come up with an accurate load for, although with a little effort I know several people who are really pleased with them. The new triple shocks seem to have overcome that problem although I haven't used them myself.

There probably isn't a better bullet available than a 180 gr. Partition for what you seek. Personally I use 165 gr. Hornady's in my 300 Win. It's been used on Blackbuck and Axis deer from 50-150 yards without a problem.

I have never seen a bullet that will give perfect penetration and expansion from laptop to 400 yards.

Mark:

As a fellow "Newbie" I feel your pain! I've been down the path you're walking (for a 300 H&H) and know how much conflicting information there is out there. There's a lot of practical knowledge available on this board, so listen to the old hands.

I'll tell you where I ended up: 165 gr. Nosler Partition, which is about the only bullet that appears to handle as large of a velocity range as you're talking about. The only expansion problems I've ever heard of was at very high "in your lap" velocities, where the front end was literally sheared off... but the base kept on going.

If you're looking for a heavier bullet take a look at the Nosler Accubond. I have no experience with it, but I understand that it has a heavier jacket than most bonded bullets for controlled expansion/better penetration on deer-sized game. Nosler doesn't make them any ligher than 180 gr. in .308, which is heavier than what I want to shoot for one of our scrawny southern whitetails, but I will defintely try them if they ever come out with a 165.

The bonded bullets will definately NOT overexpand at the sake of penetration, with the possible exception of the Swift Sirrocco (never used it, but seen roundly discussed here and elsewhere).

The polymer tipped bulelts are NOT too fragile for close range work, and definately have an edge at the 400+ yards you mention. I use them in my 300WSM with great resulet, several times at less then 100 yards, once at 45 yards!

For the game and caliber you have stated, you almost can't go wrong, assuming of course you can put that bullet in the right place!

Have fun!

Bottom line #1, you have to decide for yourself where you want to trade off penetration with expansion.

X bullets (and failsafes) pass through virtually every time on deer/antelope sized game, doing most of their damage on the hill/tree/rock beyond the deer.

SST/BT expand fast, maximizing tissue damage for quicker kills (less tracking, fewer lost animals). They are typically also more accurate, but every rifle is unique.

Bottom line #2: If you use a tough bullet, shoot the lightest one that is accurate in your rifle to maximize expansion. They are really intended for heavier game than deer/antelope, anf that is not JMHO, ask the bullet mfg for game recommendations. If you use the BT/SST types, shoot the heaviest one available and you will still get pass through penetration on any but the worst angling shots.

At this point I have to drag out my old saw that goes. . .
I've been shooting Nosler Partition bullets since 1959. I have used Nosler Partition bullets from .257 Roberts, .257 Whby, .300 Whby, .30-06, .300 Apex, and .375 H&H. In all that time I have never had a terminal ballistics failure of a Nosler Partition bullet. They are not super, do it all bullets, however, driven within their design parameters they simple do what they say they will do, every time!
All I need to worry about is getting the bullet to the target! Shot placement will serve you better than most any bullet.

There are a bunch of great premium bullets out there today.
You need to find one that you have confidence in and use it.


Nosler Partitions have and continue to serve me well! Just my opine!

Do yourself a favor and give the 200 AccuBond a try. It's exactly what you're looking for. With the highest BC of the bunch, it will drift the least in the wind and hit the hardest on those 400 yd shots. It opens up fast, even at low terminal velocities.

And you don't need to worry about it coming appart on an "in the lap" shot. It will hold together and penetrate--not as far as an X bullet, but still more than you could possibly need on a mule deer or antelope.

And they're very accurate.

"X bullets (and failsafes) pass through virtually every time on deer/antelope sized game, doing most of their damage on the hill/tree/rock beyond the deer"

CDH. Seventeen one-shot-deer-kills with several rifles and handguns using Barnes X , where not one deer even 50 yards, say that damaging rocks and trees isn't all that Barnes bullets do. Some of the earlier bullets didn't expand consistantly but that rap was cured long ago. Same with the old saw about excessive fouling. That problem was solved with the Triple Shock. As for accuracy, most problems resulted from not loading them as suggested by Barnes (starting .050" off the lands, not up close like with conventional bullets)and from not using the load info. suggested by Barnes. Because they hold together so well, they can be loaded lighter for caliber than conventional bullets for the same application, resulting in flatter trajectory and increased kenetic energy. This all copper bullet is different but, if it's loaded right, the results are awesome. Forget what you've heard, or even what happed years ago, give the new Barnes an honest try. You won't regret it.
PS
Partitions are good bullets too. But on (close-up shots at high velocity) they blow off most of the front half, the rest "pencils" through without much damage. Great penetration, but little tissue damage and blood trail.(I actually had a lung shot deer at 40 yards, flick it's tail and trot off) That won't happen with Barnes.....no matter how fast it's pushed.

This is probably add'l. info. to overload you, but I settled on Nosler partitions years ago & really see no reason to change. They always expand & always drive deep, so far. Their Accubond looks like a good bet for the longer shots or smaller animals & yet still hold together up close for decent penetration.

I'll disagree w/ those that think the various nonbonded plastic points are NOT too soft for close range work. I have a friend who guided in Montana for several years & saw enough hits w/ BTs to put him off ever using them. My own tests on wetpack confirm his observations. I think you would be better off using a Hornady IL vs. any of the BT/SST types unless you go bonded(JMO).

markb,

It's good to think but tiring to overthink. It's time for action. Your 300 magnum will blow a nice hole in any deer that you hit it with as long as it's a reasonable bullet.

Just buy a box of premium 180 gr bullets and see how they shoot in your rifle. If you like the results then load some more up and go hunting.

You've received some excellent advice here. I think there are several ways you can go with success. Accubond, Interbond, Barnes Triple shock or Nosler partition. I think all will do very well for you in the what conditions you expect. I'd choose a 180 gr bullet, personally.

There are several "right" solutions to your problem.

Sorry, one more thing I forgot to mention...


In terms of bullet choice I'd pick the following in the order listed:

168 Triple Shock
200 Accubond
180 Partition
180 Scirocco
180 Ballistic Tip

The 168 Triple Shock simply because it will penentrate as deep if not deeper than any of the other bullets and will fly as flat as a laser loaded correctly.

I agree with Doc.

I have seen AccuBonds launched from RUMs crunch about as much bone as one can find in a large Montana whitetail buck right off the muzzle and still exit. I've also seen them penetrate the same as Northforks in tests.

I have also never seen any indication that a Partition would ever fail to open up, and open well--even at very low velocities. I think some make the mistake of finding a small exit wound (made by the shank after the front core had "blown off" doing much damage to the vitals) and thinking that means the bullet didn't open up. I guarantee you, this isn't something you'd have to worry about with Partitions at 300 WM velocities.

I have seen things to indicate this might be something to worry about with various X-Bullets if you slip one between the ribs at long range. But my testing/experience does not include the TSX which are said to be better in this regard. But if you care about BC, keep in mind Barnes should have knocked the advertised BC's of the TSX down from that of the XBT's accordingly with this change in nose profile. If they cared about telling the truth about BC's in the first place as even the XBT's were overrated.....

But, I also agree with Savage's contention that damn near any bullet will get the job done for you. But since you're here asking, opinions on the best choice are obviously going to be offered.

I would echo a couple of the other posts in that you are loading a 300 Win Mag, for goodness sakes. It should take any deer at any reasonable range with any decent bullet constructed for big game hunting. IMO, the premium bullets are needed more for some of the lesser calibers when stepping them up for game which may be at the upper end of their capability. i.e. a .270 Winchester or 6.5x55 for elk or a .243 Winchester on a really big deer. These situations may be better handled by a Trophy Bonded, Nosler Partition or Accubond or a Barnes TSX than a more mundane Sierra Prohunter or Speer Hot Core Spitzer. But with a 300 Win Mag, I would think almost any medium/large game designed bullet should work. Granted, triggering a 150 gr conventional bullet at 3400 fps into a 100 lb whitetail at 50 yards will probably result in some major bloodshot meat (venison soup, anyone?), so the recommendation of a heavier somewhat controlled expansion bullet is good advice. Certainly a 180 gr bullet will probably completely penetrate any deer at any angle, but still shouldn't destroy too much meat. I shoot a .270WSM, and am planning on using the Nosler Accubond 140 gr bullet on deer and eventually elk. I believe it will perform at any given range and will probably be more accurate than the Partition bullet due to its' design. I am amazed that the Partitions are as accurate as they are, given their dual core design. The Accubonds are extremely accurate in my Model 70 Super Shadow, and I can't wait to see how they perform on medium game. If I had a 300 win mag, I would probably try the 165 gr Partition and the 180 gr Accubond and use whichever gave me better accuracy in my rifle. But then, I admit to being partial to Nosler bullets. Given the performance capability of your cartridge, I really believe that bullet selection is not that critical. Just my opinion.

These are 180 accu-bond Noslers. Hitting gallon milk jugs full of water at 100 yds, at 3050 fps. weights were L-R 119.1, 121.7, and 121.9, all penetrated 4 jugs length wise. Expansion was .650 average.


Below is a Hornady 180 interbond at nearly the same velocity. Retained weight was 140.1, penetrated 3 jugs. Expanded to .715



From this you can see the noslers retain less weight, expand less, but penetrate further. The Hornady expands more, retains more weight, but penetrates less. Tests I did last summer on the 165 interbond, shows the same results as the 180's.

yea, what Grizz said.

Let me add yet one more point. Barnes implemented their new hollow point design with the Triple Shock into ALL of their other X bullets for expansion. Therefore, according to Barnes, any X bullet tested before the introduction of the Triple shock, probably would NOT have expanded as well as the CURRENT production regular X bullets. Nevertheless, the triple shock is the way to go with Barnes. This bullet may take over the bulk of their rifle bullet sales with the XLC right behind it.

Therefore, with the new hollow point design, these pills open quickly. I have first hand experience on 3 game animals and I can tell you, they opened fast and shreaded the crap out of the vitals.

Definately my bullet of choice would be the accubond or interbond. You will get good energy transfer because it will expand rapidly and you will get more than enough penetration on the animals you listed.

I have been shooting game with Noslers for years and like Ross Seyfried says, if someone tells me they fail I just take that with a grain of salt...sometimes the front blows off and when it does it kills very well indeed with all that stuff blowing around inside and the rear goes out the other side, so you still get and exit wound and lots of blood..If that bothers you then use a heavier Nosler...If there is a better bullet than a 200 gr. Nosler in any 300 then I will eat your hat....I have used it on about everything and never felt the need for anything better.....

Ray-

I certainly agree with you on the .30 Nosler 200 Partition. I have used them for 45 years of hunting on everything from red fox, through the various deer, to moose and bear and have NEVER had one even come close to failing in ANY respect. They always open up, and they always penetrate, and I have never had one recovered with less than 70% retained weight. (Some were not recovered, but the animal always was lying either on the spot of impact or very close by, dead.)

The only newer bullet I like as much (which I note is one you DON'T particularly like) is the Barnes-X. I have never experienced the fouling problems some folks have with them and they ALWAYS have opened up just like the ones in their ad pictures for me. I just substitute the next lighter bullet weight when going from a lead-cored bullet to a Barnes-X, to keep the bullet length and twist requirement about the same. (I.e. a 180 Barnes-X where I would use an NP 200, or a Barnes-X 130 where I would use a lead-cored 150, etc.)

I would be perfectly happy hunting the rest of my life with either.

AC

Thanks for all the responses guys. This forum is a great resource for reloaders like me who are just starting out.

I think maybe I got too hung up and focused on the negative posts about the various bullet options, and ended up with some incorrect conclusions. I'm still on info-overload, but can now make an informed decision.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to walk me through this stuff!

I personally love the copper bullets, but I hunt for meat, not B&C points or photos. On deer, no premium bullet will fail to kill.

The only question is on how the killing is accomplished. Fast bullets vs slow bullets; quick expansion vs controlled expansion. The results of the fast expanding / low weight retention bullets can be a little messy (I've seen whole quarters blood shot), but they will kill the deer just fine. The limited expansion / high weight retention aren't as dramatic, but the eating is much better. HTH, Dutch.

300 Win mag for deer and antelope??????????
I would say pick the one that shoots most
accurately. Any of them will kill those small
animals.
Lyle

Ive done some testing myself with various bullets said to be "too soft" or "not enough penetration" or otherwise inferior at velocities of 2900-3100 fs and at various ranges. Ie; ballistic tips, speer hot cores, sierra gamekings. The results were always the same, an exit wound and dead deer with one shot, go figure.



Place me on the confused list as well..