I'm interested in running all my loads a tad under book velocities or slightly under my rifle's max velocity...whichever comes first...

Not a HOT-RODDER by any means...but just desiring SOLID SWEET loads in all my chamberings of hunting rifles!

In general what do you look for in selecting a more "efficient" powder for a particular cartridge?...

How do I determine this?

I want to run moderate pressures...but still reload for terminal performance so bullet selection will play a very important role here as should...

I want to learn how to be able to "interpret" the information in my reloading manuals to help me customize my loading objectives!

Loading density?

Pressure and its relationship to muzzle velocities and the like?

Faster powder for lighter bullets and slower powders for heavier bullets in general???

I'm just hoping several members here can help me gain a better understanding of the hobby and its principles...

Could someone take me to school on this?

So far I've only reloaded for my 30-06 with tremendous results but now I want to reload for about a dozen other rifle chamberings with some reason to the rhyme as reloading is definitely sparking my interests deeper...

Instead of someone sharing there pet load and I just go out and purchase that powder and work up...I would like the understanding however it be general, into the theory of it all into powder selection, in regards to bullet weights and especially pressure!

Then I'll be having a lot more fun at the hobby like you all...

It amazes me when I come here to this part of the forum and see how you folks just know all these kinds of stuff about faster powder, slower powder, etc., etc., etc.,....I think its about time I jump on in with the FUN...

Thanks to all as I would really appreciate it...

Roland

After looking at loading manuals or a computer program. My normal pick is a slower powder that will give me a higher load density and at least a "book" velocity in the range I'm looking. For me that is normally the higher velocity target for a given weight. Can't see shooting a 300wmag at 308 velocity unless for low recoil.

That said as the bullet weight for a give caliber goes up the powder will normally slow down. Sure there are plenty of exceptions. For an 06 and larger case a medium to slow powder will pretty much do it all. Magnums simply need slower powder and longer barrel to take full advantage of the extra capacity.

It would help to know the range of rifle cartridges that your a thinking about reloading.

Powder burn rates are not fixed hard and fast relative to each other. There are variations that occur due to powder lot variations. There are also differences due to the cartridge they are used in, the pressure loaded to and the bullet weight. There probably some others but that is too much information already. Due to the variations the burn rates are not used as anything more than reference points or a rule of thumb.

Here is one burn rate chart
Varmint Al's Burn Rate Chart

The fastest powder on this chart that is normally considered a rifle powder is Alliant 2400 and it has a very narrow application in rifles. Basically it is used for rounds like the 22 Hornet and .25/20. There is a family of powders with similar but different burning that goes up to AA1680.

The next family is the powders near the burning rate of IMR4198 that goes up to Reloader 7.

Then those similar to 3031

Then those similar to 4895 that stop short of 4320.


There is a family clustered around 4350

The powders slower than 4350 form another large group that rapidly get slower in burning rate. Those powders slower than 4350 also have a limited range of applications to cartridges with very large powder charges in relation to the bore diameter.

The most useful and most flexible powders fall between 3031 on the fast end and 4350 on the slow end. That said you may get good results out of the same cartridge with both powders but 3031 would be used with light bullets and 4350 might be used for heavy bullets. An example of this might be the 30-06.
This same generalization would not work for a 218 BEE or a 378 Weatherby. The little Bee and the huge Weatherby round require some of the more specialized powders to optimize their performance.

Many may not agree with my burning rate families but that is ok. This is how I use a burning rate chart. Most of the powders in the chart I do not use and will never use. I have restricted my choices to a few numbers that fit my applications without having huge amounts of powder and $$$ inventory.
If you have a very special application that you just got to have one special powder for go ahead. That is the price of optimization.

I look at density. The powder that mostly fills a case normally seems to give good velocity and accuracy. Faster powder will produce accurate loads, but velocities are not always optimum for the cartridge. I like something like one of the 4350s in your 30-06 or IMR4831.
There are no hard fast rules though, and you might find your rifle for whatever reasons prefers someother powders.

I really appeciate you folks taking the time to share this with me...I find it all so interesting and fascinating!

I'm beginning to grasp a better understanding of what you all have shared and it is very helpful!

If I can get a general idea of the basic ins and outs I'll be a happy camper!

I appreciate this info guys...

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
It would help to know the range of rifle cartridges that your a thinking about reloading.

For now I'll be reloading ...

243W........100 grains
6.5x55......120/130 grains
7x57mm......150 grains
308W........165 grains
30-06.......165/180 grains
7RM.........150 grains
9.3x62mm....200+ grains


I have on my table...

IMR4064
IMR4350
Varget
RE 22

I'd add a pound of 4895. It's a good powder for your loadings and others you may add down the road.

quote:

IMR4064
IMR4350
Varget
RE 22

I'd say you have a very good start

Thanks for the info...I appreciate it...

I know a lot of reloaders who choose a powder because of the cost, they buy the faster powders becuase the use less of it, so it is cheaper.

I choose a powder that fills the case(without compression) at the desired velocity I am looking for. I normally find that I get the best SD's with the case right at or nearly filled. It may cost a little more, but I seem to always get better accuracy that way.

IMO powder positioning in the case can cause problems that I do not want to deal with. One of them being inconsistent SD's. Tom.

I go pretty much the sam as ramrod, a powder that nearly fills the case or even slightly compressed & gives the vel. I am looking for. Most often, this will also give me best accuracy, especially in magnums. I am also one that does not like to load down for accuracy. If you have a 7mag or 300mag, why run it @ 08 vel? If you tinker enough, oyu can find a full power hunting load that will shoot right alongside lighter target loads.

Most books astric (*) a "most accurate load."

If you find the book velocity that is most accurate with your bullet and then select a powder that fills the case in that velocity range you will save some time and powder load testing.

Hey L-B, I gather 4-5 Reloading Manuals and look to see which Powders give the Highest Velocity. Normally between all the Manuals there are a couple that stand out.

Then I look to see which of those are slightly compressed, or at least fill a P-FLRed Case to the bottom of the Neck. I do not want to hear any Powder rattling around when the Bullet is Seated.

That is similar to most of the above posters.

Then I see which of those actually Powders produce the Best Accuracy using the never improved upon Creighton Audette Load Development Method with the Bullet Seated 0.010" Into-the-Lands.

I pick which ever is the best Harmonic Load while watching CHE/PRE for Pressure Indications. Then Fine Tune the Final Load by Seating a series of Test Loads progressively deeper into the Case and reshooting. That results in the most accurate Load for me with a SAFE MAX Velocity.

I shoot the Final Load at the distances I intend to take shots at Game and create a real Drop Chart from the actual shooting - not some guessed at computer generated trash.

NOTE: No chronographs, nor totally worthless HSGS fiascos, are needed.
-----

Finally go forth and make multitudes of 1-shot through the shoulder(s)Kills with an adequate cartridge.

quote:

NOTE: No chronographs, nor totally worthless HSGS fiascos, are needed.
-----

I'll agree with Hotcore on most of what he said. The one issue is the chrono. I use one to start my load development process in many cases. I load for as many FULL (my own design) wildcats as I do factory. In thoses cases there are no manuals to start from. So I must build my own. Usually the first step is using published data from cartridges that bracket my cases volume. This gives me an very rough idea of velocity targets and starting powders. I then will take several powders I THINK will give me the answer I'm looking for. Load them in 1 round steps and then fire them over a Chrony. Watching for pressure & velocity. I often find a powder giving me a much lower velocity than I expected and extrapolating the first few rounds might allow me to stop and not waste the powder, time and bullets. In other cases I right a max pressure. I then back off and if the velocity is in range I will come back later to work up a load.

On my factory rounds the Chrono is usually used after to fact to simply let me know my STW is giving me 3400 not 3600FPS for my records.

Yes I could probably do the same thing using a 200 yd ladder. However since I have only my own velocity forcast I don't want to waste time and $$ wokring up and accurate load that is several 100FPS below what I'm looking for. As to drop the only real way to know is shoot it at distance.

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:


Not a HOT-RODDER by any means...but just desiring SOLID SWEET loads in all my chamberings of hunting rifles!

In general what do you look for in selecting a more "efficient" powder for a particular cartridge?...

How do I determine this?

In general I select my bullet first, then a suitable powder. As many others have already pointed out, slower powders do their best work in large cases driving heavy bullets. Following this simple rule of thumb as well as good hand loading practices will keep you safe.

Wow...Thanks to all of you!

I'm glad I decided to post this here as I have a "Commonwealth of Knowledge" here amongst the experienced!

Since my last reply here, everyone has been expounding upon the foundation already that had been laid...

You've given me a "greater perspective" into getting into the mind of an experienced reloader, as in how he goes about attempting to create that specific load...

Yes, I fully concurr in what has been said here about making the cartridge perform at the DESIGNED and INTENDED velocities for sure...

Yes, I do want my 30-06 running at 2750-2800fps and I don't want my 7mmRM running at 2600fps...
I want them all running as designed and intended for sure!

I am perfectly clear and able to take it from here gang...BUT...if there is any more any one would like to "add" believe me I am all ears!!!

I appreciate you folks giving me a SOLID foundation into the mind of a reloader and how he chooses his powders in mind!

Aloha gang this is SUPER...

Roland

If ones not familiar with powders and burn rates and even if they think they are ,

manuals save time MONEY and unnecessary risks of injury's . IMO !.

See manufactures know HOW much of what can be put into which cartridges . They

test them so as NOT to have Consumer mishaps !. Powder manufactures most times recommend

the powders ( As they TEST THEM ) too the Ammo manufactures .

I'm a Simpleton and use manuals why because they did ALL THE WORK ALREADY !.

I worked for Hercules Powders Division years back Alliant now !.

Is theirs the best ? .NO ! not in all cases NOBODY'S IS !.

They make some dandy stuff so does IMR VV and all the others manufactured !.

Developing a Load or custom hand load , is defining Accuracy with Velocity in a happy

medium , using the bullet of YOUR CHOICE . Personally I subscribe too the Accuracy equation .

An animal is RARELY concerned with 100-250 FPS , provided the bullet is traveling at a

specific speed to insure penetration expansion and weight retention .

The " Magic " is when it ALL COMES TOGETHER !. I'm unconcerned if my 7 mm RM is 3200 FPS or 2950

provided it hits the mark at it's intended distance , ensuring what I stated above .

Bench resting or Extreme distance shooting well that's another chapter and bullet .

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

IMR4064
IMR4350
Varget
RE 22

I'd say you have a very good start

yup....a good start indeed.....

I fully agree with the others...look for a powder that fills the case requiring a bit oc compression and has good velocity according to the manual.....but I sure like my chronograph.

Yes, I loaded for forty years without one but like it today.

Doc,

Well said!

Yes, I am an accurate freak myself even when it comes to my hunting load! All my hunting rifles shoot MOA or better with factory ammo already! Finding the right velocity and that node and then tune it by adjusting distance to the lands is where its going to be at for me!

Unless I have a rifle who doesn't like a particular bullet I've chosen in regards to profile or weight, I'll work with the powders I have unless I really have a problem...

But as time goes on I'll be like most and start experimenting! The comments being shared here really give me a greater understanding!

I appreciate you sharing your comments here as well! Thanks a bunch!

VAPODOG,

Hey buddy! How's the hunt going...hehehe

I appreciate you taking the time to give me your vote of confidence with the powders I have available as others have mentioned as well...

I'm excited now that I have a greater awareness into determining my powder selections...

Now I just want to try my best to develop a system that will work for me in making load development simple and practical...

Like backing off 5-7% from book MAX and working up in .5 grain increments...Then once I find the most accurate load there I'll work that load by going a couple grains over and below that load...

I'll take the best of those three loads then adjust my ogive's distance to the lands and call it good!

This is how I worked up the load in (4) 30-06 rifles just a few months ago before me and my son's Namibia PG hunt...

180gr NP/54.3gr IMR 4350/CCI 200

That load shot all sub-MOA in all four
rifles...The best was from my Mauser Rem 798 30-06 with <.25 3-shot groups consistently if I did my part...The biggest group was 3/4" from my son's Savage...not bad for my first time reloading...and this is why I wanted to get more insight from you all...My interest is definitely glowing after that type of initial success...I realize it might not always be as easy as that first experience...

The work up was easy to do and I was organized and kept good detailed notes! I believe that's the key for me...I need to log things down...

I'm looking forward to this all and as mentioned before I'm grateful for the Commonwealth of Knowledge freely shared here by you all...

Aloha!

Ro

quote:

Now I just want to try my best to develop a system that will work for me in making load development simple and practical...

This should help you out.
Creighton Audette

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:

quote:

Now I just want to try my best to develop a system that will work for me in making load development simple and practical...

This should help you out.
Creighton Audette

I'll check it out!

Thanks!