I have only used Lee factory crimp dies for several years. Today I remembered why!

I had made a flat of nice 416 Taylor ammunition with 350 grain Swift A-Frame bullets. Since these are for a light rifle I thought it best to crimp the mouths into the factory cannelures. I didn't have a factory crimp die yet (it is on order), so I became impatient (BAD!!!!) and used the seater die in a seperate step to crimp.

About halfway through I relized that I had over-crimped, and the shoulders were bulging just enough that the cases won't chamber properly.

Soooooooo, it is time to get the .416" collet out, save the bullets, size fresh brass, re-weigh the powder charges and then use the factory crimp die when it arrives.

I used to use the seater dies to crimp, but I trust the Lee die much more (In my hands, that is - I'm sure there are some real seater die maestros).

Patience, patienc and more patience.

LD

I seat many of my pistol ammo with a bullet seater die in a seperate step.

But in a couple 300 win mags I only had the same experience as you when trying to do that. I had to just quick crimping the 300 win mag.

Now when I crimp for a rifle I only use lee factory crimp dies.

I speak from experence . . . Having stuffed up crimps in all possible manner. My last trick was gradualy tightening the crimp while the bullit actually got more loose.

Mostly now I crimp by "feel". A light touch does it, and it comes tight. If the press isn't full up, to bad. The bullet seating depth doesn't seem to vary much, but not being over fussy I have the full cannelure to play with.

Can't be bothered crimping by its self, sounds too easy.

Crimping can be a pain in the necks........................dj

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
Mostly now I crimp by "feel". A light touch does it, and it comes tight. If the press isn't full up, to bad. The bullet seating depth doesn't seem to vary much, but not being over fussy I have the full cannelure to play with.

Can't be bothered crimping by its self, sounds too easy.

I confess to this with ammo that I'm not being fussy about and also to creating some Coke bottle shaped brass when I wasn't paying attention to brass OAL prior to crimping/crushing.

On the blasting ammo I just let the handle on my press drop till it gets tight but don't let it cam over and that's all she gets. I get some of my prettiest ammo that way too.

Crimping is for shotshells.

Crimping is also for 416 Rigby cartridges, 416 Rem Mag, 458 Lott, 470 NE, 404 Jeff, etc., etc.

Anyone who has shot some heavy recoiling cartridges in lighter rifles has had bullets spit out, or driven back depending on magazine rifle versus double rifle; whether or not there are recoil shoulders in the magazine box, etc.

400 to 500 grain bullets have a fair amount of mass; much more than a 180 grain .308 caliber bullet. Look up the recoil impulse for some of the larger calibers in rifles of moderate weight.

416 Taylor cartridges for a light rifle for a bear guide for Alaska need 100% load density and very solid crimps.

Later this year I have to build a "stab" crimp fixture. That will certainly be a "learning" experience.

LD

Or for Lever rifles that usually have tube magazines.

I have Lee factory crimp dies for 30-30, 35rem and 45-70 because suprise suprise I have tube magazine lever rifles
in those cartridges.

AD

Hey JCN, I know that had to run a black cloud over the day. I've done it too before I began trimming after every firing.

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
Crimping can be a pain in the necks.......dj

Nice Pun!
-----

Hey Stonecreek, Don't you Crimp your 44Mag and 357Mag cartridges? I don't get near as clean of a burn when the Crimp is loose or nonexistant.

And I Crimp the 444Mar come to think of it. And I did the 30-30 and 35Rem when I had them.

Crimped shotgun shells too.

Yes, patience is a virtue, but in your case, not paying attention caused your problems.

BTW, how many cartridges in a flat? I know that 10, 25 count shotshell boxes are commonly called a flat, but never heard that term used for rifle ammo.

I think of ammo the same way as a "Flat"

Or in other words the 50rounds that fit in a stalwart wooden cartridge tray.

Unless lawndart uses the MTM plastic loading trays that hold 60 rounds (I've got a couple of those myself to match the 60round ammo boxes I use for 45-70 and 444 Marlin)

AD

I have no problems crimping using the factory die provided in all rfile sets. You just have to have the cases the same length & crimp into the cannelure.

I also crimp with the factory die and actually find it pretty easy. All my dies are Redding except for one, which is an RCBS 470NE. The process works for both Redding and RCBS

1. trim cases to same length

2. seat bullet so the case mouth lines up in the crimping groove on the bullet. I like to seat the bullet with just about 40% of the crimping groove exposed, so I don't need an aggressive crimp

3. seat all the bullets for that reloading batch

4. unscrew the bullet seating plug - I actually remove it on the Redding dies

5. put loaded round back in the press and extend the round as high as it will go into the press - that is pull the lever. Now unlock the locking ring on the die and screw the die down (rember the bullet seating plug is removed in this step) until you fill the die come in contact with the case mouth. You can actually feel the crimp being made with your fingers - take out and inspect the crimp. If you want more crimp re-insert and screw down the the die some more (again with the ram all the way up) using your fingers.
Remove round and re-inspect.

5. When you get the right amount of crimp - lock the ring on the die and do the rest of the batch by running them up into the die with the ram.

The key is not to over crimp - it doesn't take much of a crimp to hold the bullet in place. Also, if you try to make your adjustments without using this method of screwing the die down onto the round with your fingers you usually will get to much crimp (at least I do).

I wasn't giving the job in front of me my full attention.

I was able to pull all the bullets without any significant marks. I miked all the cases. Some will be okay for practice rounds with Speer Mag Tips. The others got to meet Mr. Vice Grip on their way into the scrap brass bucket.

My flats are made of 1" Delrin with 50 holes drilled in them. Much more stable than my old MTM flats. I got them from Sinclair initially, then had more made locally. For 50 BMG, etc. I only have 25 holes. Don't get the holes drilled too tightly. If so, you will get a case jammed by one or two grains of powder. I know this to be true.

The important thing is that nothing goes out the door unless it is better than its designated task requires.

BTW, the Jamison brass in 416 Taylor is pretty good. Next up is a bunch of 470 NE, and then some 416 Rigby. It is interesting measuring the various brands of brass as to rim thickness, neck thickness, case capacity, runnout, etc.

LD

Tell them to overnight the Lee Factory Crimp die. It's not worth the hassle of fooling with the seating die, etc.

Thanks for the idea Frank,

Unfortunately I also sent sample cartridges for:
9.3x57,
6.5x57,
9.3x70

and ordered standard:
7mm-08
300 H&H

Should be about three more weeks.
So far I have ordered twenty custom Lee Factory dies. For commercial ammo it is the only way to go for less than $10,000.00

John