I still have a fair supply of the original 400 gr. copper tubing bullets in both .411" and .423", and a small supply of them in .330" and .458".

I have tried both the .032" and the .049" jacket thicknesses and never found any which would not expand. I did find that the .450 Ackley would blow either thickness to smithereens, and that none of them were remarkably accurate.

So, for my big bores, I have switched to the uncoated Barnes-X bullets. They ARE accurate, do not copper my bores particularly (not nearly so much as the Originals), and do not blow up.

YMMV, but that's my experience.

Alberta Canuck

The 250 gn 30 cal would stop a bear. A big bear.

I visited Barnes in person about a year ago and inquired about their originals. They told me they were phasing them out because the technology has been surpased. Oh well.

Looking at the link above it appears that there might be a select few that they will keep for certian purposes, like the 38/55 one for cowboy action shooting, etc.

I find that real sad. the Barnes' bullet was a great design and it still is. Animals are not any harder to kill, The field has just gotten to cowded with hi tech construction in bullets that has gone well beyond the need and cost for the average hunter.Sophistication in this arena is becomeing combersome at best. Kinda like sorting the fly shit from the pepper.Barnes and Nosler did what was really needed a long time ago for the deer and elk hunter; the rest is just frosting on the cake. roger

I'm still using some of the original Barnes Bullets in my 7mm Mauser. They are 190 grain heavies for the 7mm. Every year before deer season, I fire them to see if I'm zeroed, and they are always at the same POI. I have enough to last a long time, so I'm a happy camper...
Don

I was never able to recover a single one of Mr. Barnes Originals.

"I recovered two;A 6.5 fired from a Carcano and a 70gr. 224 fired from a 22-250. Both were between the meat and the skin on the far side. The 22 was a perfect mushroom with not much weight loose.The 6.5 had just a little mushrooming but great penatration for that slow velocity."roger

I've got a stash of them for .375, 8mm, .257. I don't recall if I have any .308's out in the loading room. I've been meaning to pick up some 7mm's, both 125 and 190's for the 7-08 and 7 RM respectively. When I see them again I'll get them this time.
I consider these my premium premium bullets.
Bill

1. Approximate distance to the game?" The 6.5 shoot was about 30 yds. The 22-250 was something over 100 yards maybe 150."

2. Angle of Entry?"The 6.5 hit the deer high in the chest on the left hand side angling down and toward the rear far side. The 22-250 was a clean broad side shot with the deer moveing at a pretty good clip up hill. She didn't seem to slow down much and I thought I had missed but my buddy said he heard the bullet hit. I found her about 25 yards from where I shot her."

3. Approximate Impact Velocity?"With the 6.5 I would guess about 1900fps. The 22-250 maybe about 2950fps. Back than we used 250-3000 cases and they held 1 to 2 more grains of 4350. The load was as I remember 40 grains."

I certainly don't doubt your word, just curious about why they didn't Exit. Any ideas in that regard?
"First the 6.5 traveled a long distance angling thru the far side rib cage.Than it tried to angle through the skin and just could not do it. By the time the 22-250 got through the deer it had expended almost all its energy."

Short story. I was standing rather close behind a large buck when my 14 year old hunting buddy shot his first mulie with a 30-30 thru the side of the neck. before the bullet exited on the far side it streched that skin some 10 to 12 inches.

Apply that knowledge to the 2 deer I am talking about. The energy left in the 6.5 wasn't near great enough to angle through the hide. The 22-250 was just totaly used up and probably stretched the hide a good bit but could not break through."

I tried to PM this info but you got that turned off I see. I use to live in Grand Junction and knew Fred Barnes well. I often watched him make his bullets from copper tubing and large rolls of lead wire. Rather simple really. I'm not sure what Ray ( who has far more experience than I) is talking about when he refferes to a web. Some of the jackets ,however, may have been considered thick for caliber but I never had a failure unless I miss placed the bullet and I did that once and still got the deer. roger

Mr. Bill,
I have a Winchester 70 in 300 H + H. It likes this bullet very well and shoots 1 inch groups at 100 yards with them. I like the weight for moose and bear.

Hey Roger, Thank you for the details. Nice report and I understand.

Quote:

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... I was standing rather close behind a large buck when my 14 year old hunting buddy shot his first mulie with a 30-30 thru the side of the neck. before the bullet exited on the far side it streched that skin some 10 to 12 inches.

Apply that knowledge to the 2 deer I am talking about. The energy left in the 6.5 wasn't near great enough to angle through the hide. The 22-250 was just totaly used up and probably stretched the hide a good bit but could not break through."

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I do know exactly what you mean here too. The Deer I've seen "knocked off their feet" had the exact thing happen to them as they had the off-side front leg in the air. Once they are not well balanced, what you describe will throw them down.

From what I've seen on shots like that, the recovered Bullet typically has a w-i-d-e smooth expanded nose which allows it to push the hide loose rather than cutting through it. The 0.429" XTP Hornadys exhibited this trait as the norm in my 44RemMags. Lots of damage to the guts/lungs/whatever as they made their way to the off-side.

Quote:

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... I use to live in Grand Junction and knew Fred Barnes well. I often watched him make his bullets from copper tubing and large rolls of lead wire. Rather simple really. I'm not sure what Ray ( who has far more experience than I) is talking about when he refferes to a web. Some of the jackets ,however, may have been considered thick for caliber but I never had a failure unless I miss placed the bullet and I did that once and still got the deer. roger

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I just looked and my 125gr 0.284" bullets do not have the Jacket Thickness(Tubing Wall) on them, but the 200gr 35cal bullets have it listed as 0.032".

I always thought Mr. Barnes idea was to primarily control expansion by the thickness of the Jacket. I sure don't know a thing about the "web" Mr. Ray refered to on a Barnes Original.

Seems to me I remember reading(perhaps in the first Barnes Manual) that the actual idea for the solid annealed bullet with the "X" hole in the front was actually something Fred Barnes came up with and Randy Brooks found it in some of his old notes.

Huuuumm, just looked in that Book and it says Randy came up with the idea. So, maybe I dreamed the previous part up - don't know.

Anyway, sure is nice to hear you knew one of the Legends in the business. Lots of people aspire to achieve greatness, but few really make it. I'm sure you cherish those memories.

Thanks again.