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DO WE REALLY NEED MAGNUM CARTRIDGES?

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06 January 2003, 16:17
hillbillybear
DO WE REALLY NEED MAGNUM CARTRIDGES?
Do we really need Magnum rounds for North American Hunting? I used a computer ballistics program to compile the following comparisons of magnum vs non-magnum rounds. They are based on loads I found in the 12th edition of the Speer reloading manual (Speer gave test data based on actual rifles instead of pressure barrels). I tried to pick and compare loads a typical hunter in this country might use with the particular cartridge. I used a zero range of 200 yards for the data sets.

Please pay close attention to how close the 250 yard figures are to one another. I would venture the summation that 99% of all game taken in this country is taken at this range or closer. Also note how beyond 300 yards all the rounds go into an epizootic decline in trajectory, wind drift and energy.

Additionally, before anybody gets the notion that Ol� HBB is some sort of magnum hating stick in the mud please note that my favorite cartridge for hunting all critters great and small is the .300 Winchester magnum.

Now what do You all think?

HBB

Set I:
.223 Rem. 52 grain bthp @ 3448 fps (.253 BC) Test Rifle: Ruger 77 MkII w/ 22 in bbl.

220 Swift 52 grain bthp-match @ 3844 fps (.253 BC)(pg. 159) Test Rifle: Ruger 77-V w/26 in. bbl.

Ballistic Comparison:
.223 Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 3448 -1.5 0 0 1373 0
50 3125 0.42 0.48 0.05 1128 0.82
100 2840 1.43 1.86 0.1 931 1.99
150 2572 1.38 4.31 0.15 764 4.03
200 2322 0 8.09 0.22 623 7.07
250 2086 -3 13.49 0.28 502 11.27
300 1864 -8.02 20.9 0.36 401 16.81
350 1659 -15.55 30.83 0.45 318 23.92
400 1474 -26.25 43.93 0.54 251 32.84
450 1313 -40.98 61.06 0.65 199 43.81
500 1181 -60.78 83.25 0.77 161 56.94

.220 Swift Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 3844 -1.5 0 0 1706 0
50 3600 -0.03 0.39 0.04 1496 0.66
100 3383 0.78 1.45 0.09 1322 1.34
150 3176 0.82 3.27 0.13 1165 2.48
200 2978 0 5.96 0.18 1024 4.14
250 2789 -1.81 9.63 0.23 898 6.36
300 2608 -4.73 14.42 0.29 785 9.18
350 2435 -8.95 20.5 0.35 685 12.67
400 2269 -14.64 28.05 0.41 594 16.89
450 2110 -22.01 37.29 0.48 514 21.91
500 1957 -31.36 48.5 0.55 442 27.83

SET II:

.243 Win. 100 grain btsp @ 2766 fps (.430 BC) Test Rifle: Ruger 77 Mk II w 22 in barrel

240 Wby Mag. 105 grain Spitzer @ 3206 fps ( .443 BC) (page 179) Test Rifle: Wby Mk V w/ 24in. bbl

.243 Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2766 -1.5 0 0 1699 0
50 2655 0.83 0.7 0.06 1565 0.63
100 2551 1.94 2.63 0.12 1445 1.21
150 2450 1.7 5.9 0.18 1333 2.19
200 2352 0 10.63 0.24 1228 3.59
250 2256 -3.27 16.94 0.3 1130 5.44
300 2162 -8.26 24.96 0.37 1038 7.77
350 2071 -15.12 34.85 0.44 952 10.6
400 1981 -23.99 46.76 0.52 871 13.98
450 1894 -35.1 60.9 0.59 797 17.92
500 1810 -48.64 77.47 0.67 727 22.48

.240 Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 3206 -1.5 0 0 2397 0
50 3086 0.32 0.53 0.05 2220 0.59
100 2976 1.22 1.98 0.1 2065 1.05
150 2868 1.14 4.41 0.15 1918 1.82
200 2763 0 7.9 0.2 1780 2.93
250 2661 -2.28 12.53 0.26 1651 4.38
300 2561 -5.8 18.4 0.32 1529 6.2
350 2463 -10.65 25.6 0.38 1414 8.4
400 2368 -16.94 34.24 0.44 1307 11
450 2275 -24.78 44.43 0.5 1207 14.04
500 2184 -34.3 56.3 0.57 1112 17.53

SET III:

257 Roberts +P 120 grain btsp @2793 fps (.435 BC) Test Rifle: Ruger 77 MK II w/24 in barrel

257 Wby Mag. 120 grain BTSP @ 3199 fps(.435 BC) (page 195) Test Rifle: Wby Mk V w/24 in bbl

.257 Roberts Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2793 -1.5 0 0 2079 0
50 2682 0.79 0.69 0.06 1917 0.62
100 2579 1.88 2.58 0.11 1772 1.19
150 2479 1.65 5.79 0.17 1638 2.14
200 2381 0 10.42 0.24 1511 3.51
250 2285 -3.19 16.58 0.3 1391 5.31
300 2192 -8.05 24.42 0.37 1280 7.58
350 2101 -14.73 34.08 0.44 1176 10.33
400 2012 -23.37 45.7 0.51 1079 13.61
450 1925 -34.18 59.49 0.59 987 17.44
500 1841 -47.33 75.62 0.67 903 21.86

.257 Wby. Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 3199 -1.5 0 0 2727 0
50 3077 0.33 0.53 0.05 2523 0.59
100 2964 1.24 1.99 0.1 2341 1.06
150 2853 1.16 4.43 0.15 2169 1.86
200 2746 0 7.95 0.21 2009 3
250 2641 -2.31 12.63 0.26 1859 4.5
300 2539 -5.88 18.56 0.32 1718 6.38
350 2440 -10.8 25.84 0.38 1586 8.65
400 2343 -17.17 34.58 0.44 1463 11.35
450 2248 -25.15 44.92 0.51 1347 14.49
500 2156 -34.84 56.97 0.58 1239 18.1

Set IV:
6.5x 55 Mauser 140 grain spitzer @ 2671 (.496 BC) Test Rifle: Ruger 77 MkII w/ 22 in barrel

264 Win. Mag. 140 grain spitzer @ 3130 fps (.496 BC) (page 204) Test Rifle: 700Rem w/24 in barrel

6.5x55 Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2671 -1.5 0 0 2218 0
50 2577 0.94 0.74 0.06 2065 0.61
100 2489 2.08 2.79 0.12 1926 1.13
150 2403 1.79 6.26 0.18 1795 2.01
200 2318 0 11.23 0.24 1670 3.27
250 2236 -3.41 17.83 0.31 1554 4.92
300 2155 -8.58 26.18 0.38 1444 6.99
350 2076 -15.62 36.4 0.45 1340 9.5
400 1998 -24.67 48.64 0.52 1241 12.48
450 1923 -35.91 63.06 0.6 1150 15.94
500 1849 -49.51 79.84 0.68 1063 19.92

.264 Mag. Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 3130 -1.5 0 0 3046 0
50 3024 0.37 0.55 0.05 2843 0.57
100 2926 1.29 2.06 0.1 2662 1
150 2831 1.19 4.58 0.15 2492 1.71
200 2737 0 8.2 0.21 2329 2.73
250 2645 -2.36 12.98 0.26 2175 4.06
300 2556 -5.96 19.01 0.32 2031 5.72
350 2468 -10.9 26.37 0.38 1894 7.73
400 2382 -17.26 35.16 0.44 1764 10.1
450 2299 -25.17 45.49 0.51 1643 12.85
500 2217 -34.72 57.47 0.57 1528 16

SET V:

.270 Winchester 130 grain btsp @ 3117 fps (.449 BC) Test Rifle: Ruger 77 Mk II 22 in barrel

270Wby. Mag. 150 grain btsp @ 3249 fps ( .496 BC) ( page 211) Test Rifle: Wby Mk V w/ 26in bbl

.270Win Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 3117 -1.5 0 0 2805 0
50 3001 0.4 0.56 0.05 2600 0.59
100 2893 1.33 2.09 0.1 2416 1.06
150 2788 1.23 4.65 0.16 2244 1.86
200 2686 0 8.35 0.21 2083 3
250 2586 -2.44 13.25 0.27 1930 4.5
300 2488 -6.19 19.46 0.33 1787 6.37
350 2393 -11.34 27.07 0.39 1653 8.64
400 2300 -18.02 36.21 0.45 1527 11.33
450 2210 -26.35 47 0.52 1410 14.46
500 2121 -36.46 59.57 0.59 1299 18.06

.270Wby Mag Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 3249 -1.5 0 0 3516 0
50 3140 0.26 0.52 0.05 3284 0.57
100 3040 1.14 1.92 0.1 3078 0.97
150 2941 1.08 4.26 0.15 2881 1.65
200 2845 0 7.62 0.2 2696 2.62
250 2751 -2.16 12.05 0.25 2521 3.89
300 2659 -5.46 17.63 0.31 2355 5.47
350 2569 -10 24.45 0.37 2198 7.37
400 2481 -15.86 32.59 0.43 2050 9.63
450 2395 -23.14 42.15 0.49 1911 12.24
500 2311 -31.94 53.23 0.55 1779 15.23

SET VI:

280 Remington 140 btsp@ 2976 (.502 BC) Test Rifle: Ruger 77 Mk II 24 in bbl.

7MM Wby. Mag. 160 grain btsp @ 3082 fps (.556 BC) (page 235) Test Rifle: Wby. Mk V w/24 in barrel.

.280 Rem. Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2976 -1.5 0 0 2753 0
50 2876 0.53 0.61 0.05 2571 0.58
100 2782 1.51 2.27 0.11 2406 1.03
150 2690 1.35 5.06 0.16 2250 1.78
200 2601 0 9.05 0.22 2103 2.85
250 2513 -2.65 14.34 0.28 1963 4.26
300 2428 -6.67 21 0.34 1833 6.02
350 2344 -12.19 29.15 0.4 1708 8.14
400 2262 -19.28 38.88 0.47 1591 10.64
450 2182 -28.08 50.32 0.53 1480 13.56
500 2103 -38.7 63.58 0.6 1375 16.89

7MM Wby. Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 3082 -1.5 0 0 3375 0
50 2989 0.4 0.57 0.05 3174 0.56
100 2902 1.33 2.11 0.1 2992 0.94
150 2817 1.21 4.69 0.16 2819 1.59
200 2734 0 8.37 0.21 2656 2.5
250 2652 -2.38 13.22 0.27 2499 3.7
300 2572 -6 19.31 0.32 2350 5.19
350 2494 -10.94 26.71 0.38 2210 6.99
400 2417 -17.28 35.52 0.44 2076 9.1
450 2341 -25.12 45.83 0.51 1947 11.55
500 2268 -34.54 57.72 0.57 1828 14.35

Set VII:
30/06 Sprg. 165 btsp @ 2803 (.477 BC ) Test Rifle: 700 Rem 22 in bbl.

300 Win. Mag. 180 grain btsp @3059 fps (.540 BC) (page 313) Test Rifle: Ruger 77 Mk II w/ 24 in bbl.

.30/06 Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2803 -1.5 0 0 2879 0
50 2702 0.76 0.68 0.06 2675 0.6
100 2607 1.82 2.55 0.11 2490 1.11
150 2515 1.6 5.71 0.17 2318 1.98
200 2425 0 10.24 0.23 2155 3.2
250 2337 -3.08 16.26 0.3 2001 4.82
300 2251 -7.76 23.88 0.36 1857 6.84
350 2166 -14.17 33.22 0.43 1719 9.3
400 2084 -22.43 44.42 0.5 1591 12.2
450 2003 -32.71 57.63 0.57 1470 15.59
500 1924 -45.14 73 0.65 1356 19.49

.300 Win Mag Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 3059 -1.5 0 0 3740 0
50 2964 0.42 0.58 0.05 3511 0.57
100 2875 1.37 2.14 0.1 3304 0.97
150 2788 1.24 4.77 0.16 3107 1.64
200 2703 0 8.52 0.21 2920 2.59
250 2619 -2.44 13.46 0.27 2742 3.84
300 2537 -6.15 19.67 0.33 2573 5.4
350 2457 -11.21 27.24 0.39 2413 7.27
400 2379 -17.73 36.26 0.45 2262 9.49
450 2302 -25.77 46.81 0.51 2118 12.05
500 2227 -35.47 59.01 0.58 1982 14.98

SET VIII:

.338/06 225bgrain btsp @ 2678fps (.484 BC) Test Rifle: A-Square w/23 in bbl.

338 Win Mag 225 grain btsp @ 2981 fps (.484 BC) (page 350) Test Rifle: 70 Win. w/24 in bbl

.338/06 Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2678 -1.5 0 0 3583 0
50 2581 0.94 0.74 0.06 3328 0.61
100 2491 2.07 2.78 0.12 3100 1.14
150 2403 1.79 6.24 0.18 2885 2.05
200 2316 0 11.2 0.24 2680 3.33
250 2232 -3.41 17.79 0.31 2489 5.03
300 2149 -8.59 26.14 0.38 2307 7.15
350 2068 -15.63 36.36 0.45 2137 9.72
400 1989 -24.73 48.63 0.52 1977 12.78
450 1911 -36.02 63.1 0.6 1825 16.34
500 1836 -49.71 79.96 0.68 1684 20.43

.338 Win Mag Data:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2981 -1.5 0 0 4440 0
50 2877 0.53 0.61 0.05 4135 0.59
100 2780 1.52 2.26 0.11 3861 1.05
150 2685 1.36 5.05 0.16 3602 1.83
200 2592 0 9.05 0.22 3357 2.95
250 2501 -2.66 14.35 0.28 3125 4.41
300 2413 -6.71 21.04 0.34 2909 6.23
350 2326 -12.27 29.23 0.4 2703 8.44
400 2242 -19.44 39.04 0.47 2511 11.06
450 2159 -28.33 50.57 0.54 2329 14.1
500 2077 -39.1 63.98 0.61 2155 17.58
06 January 2003, 16:26
jstevens
Of course not. I don't NEED 25 rifles either. Or half a dozen horses or 2 race cars, but it sure is a lot more fun. Come to think of it I don't need to go hunting either! Think I will though.
06 January 2003, 16:28
JerryO
quote:
Originally posted by hillbillybear:
Do we really need Magnum rounds for North American Hunting?
Well that's the most compelling data for a magnum that I have seen.

That is in the 7mm, the mag energy at 500 yards is equal to the .280 at 300 yards.

In the .338, the energy of the mag at 500 yards is equal to 338-06 at 350 yards.

And I thought the gain was more like 40 to 50 yards.

JerryO
06 January 2003, 16:33
XWind
quote:
Originally posted by hillbillybear:
Do we really need Magnum rounds for North American Hunting?
Do we need V8s to get to work, 3 Ghz computers to cruise the internet, hundreds of calibers and thousands of loads, 300 HP Bass Boats... [Big Grin]

Maybe not but ain't America Great!

Your point is well taken and nice job with the data, I just couldn't resist...no offense intended just in a goofy mood [Eek!]

Cheers [Cool]
XWind
06 January 2003, 16:35
tsturm
[QUOTE]Originally posted by hillbillybear:
Do we really need Magnum rounds for North American Hunting?

Yes [Big Grin] [Big Grin] !! I do [Razz]
06 January 2003, 16:37
<t_bob38>
Nope. Just keep the same cartridges and take off the work "Magnum".
06 January 2003, 16:46
Brent Moffitt
HBB, I have a question I've wanted to ask before, a good time now. [Smile]
How do you copy and paste the statistics from your ballistics program to the post here?
What program were you able to do it with?
I have tried before but I'm doing something wrong because it didn't work, I assume you did not type all that, or DID you?

Back to the original question [Big Grin] .
I think the clothes we wear could all be the same too, but that would suck too. [Big Grin] Seriously, advancments in accuracy and so many other things reguarding cartridges and guns why put the fire out now? Who knows what's around the corner from here? [Wink]
It may come to that someday soon anyway, just before we loose them all for good.
Your point is well taken and very valid too. [Smile]
06 January 2003, 16:54
Brad
For any hunting in North Carolina, no.

In the windy, wide open west where ranges can be longer and the game can vary from a 20 lb coyote or 95 lb antelope to a 800 lb elk... yeah, magnum's can come in handy.

I sometimes wonder if question's like this are posted to reinforce choices which have already been made [Big Grin]

BA
06 January 2003, 16:59
hillbillybear
Brent,
Here is a link to the ballistics program I used for the data.
http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html

The way I get my stuff to post is I run the tables then I copy and paste it to Microsoft Word then I copy and paste this to posting area on the AR forum. It may not be the best way but it do work for me.
I hope this helps.

Thanks for your Input and Good Shooting,
HBB
06 January 2003, 17:01
<DuaneinND>
No, but then we don't "need" a 400hp small block in a Camaro either, but it sure is fun. I can/could kill any animal I have ever or will ever hunt with my 257DGR or for sure with my 35 Whelen AI, but hey I have a 300 win mag too, and when it comes to big bucks, long shots, well it is really nice to have.
06 January 2003, 17:10
rejpelly
I like "big" bore as the .338RUM loaded with a 200 grs bullet,why I choose this one among non magnum, what is wrong with more potential energy,what really counts is where one put his shoot on the target(game).
07 January 2003, 02:44
Hot Core
quote:
Originally posted by Brad:
For any hunting in North Carolina, no.
HAHAHAHAHA As usual for bradly - "WRONG AGAIN!"

Plenty of places in the Carolinas where the same conditions bradly described for the "wide open West" are valid. Of course, "not knowing" what he is talking about has never deterred bradly from commenting on anything.

Quite a nice herd of Elk in the "Western" Carolina mountains and the herd is growing every year. These are transplants from the KY herd and(as AMAZING as it would be to bradly) they grow to the same size as the ones in the "wide open west".

I met a guy who used to frequent these Boards as "Odessa", at the NRA Convention when it was here in Charlotte. Though I've not seen one this large, he was telling me about a Black Bear killed in the Eastern portion of NC (Greenville area) which exceeded 850 pounds.

And I remember a 700+ pound Black Bear killed by a Volkswagon quite a few years ago in SC near Myrtle Beach.

Darn shame Don Martin hasn't jumped in to berate the "Belt", or I'd work him over too. Nothing like a BIG Belted case when you want lots of Impact Energy.

I really enjoy using the 223Rem and 308Win family of cases, but still don't want to do without my outstanding Belted Magnums.

[ 01-06-2003, 17:59: Message edited by: Hot Core ]
07 January 2003, 02:53
muleshoe
"epizootic"???

I gotta go dig out the dictionary for that one.
07 January 2003, 03:12
ACRecurve
I like some of the magnum cartridges--.300 Win, .338 Win, 340 Wby, .375 H&H, and the .416 Rem & Rigby. I don't like the recoil on some of them, though. It isn't unmanageable, just not my idea of fun. I'm finding myself more and more going back to the .270 Win, 7x57, and .338-06 AI. Very few of the animals I have taken required a magnum, but when needed (and provided the operator can handle the cartridge proficiently) nothing else quite gets the job done. My NA hunting is mostly for deer, elk and pronghorn in the western half and I rarely take shots of over 250 yards. I guess my take on the magnums is that they're not often needed. When I take one to the field it is after ALOT of practice. Whatever floats your boat! [Wink]

Good Hunting,
07 January 2003, 04:16
<bigcountry>
Hot Core, finally got to see a bull the other day in Ky. All I have seen was calfs and cows. One of the calfs was walking up to people at the coal mines. DNR came in and killed it quietly that night we think. Somebody said it was a possible sign of one of the diseases. I didn't know they made it down to NC.

And to add to the post and answer the original question. "What does it matter" Who cares what the other hunter is shooting. Too busy to worry about bull like that.

[ 01-06-2003, 19:18: Message edited by: bigcountry ]
07 January 2003, 05:51
<Gunnut45/454>
No we don't unless your one of those folk that can't shoot at anything less 500 yds away. I'm sorry that would be those LRH folk! [Wink] For rest of us normal hunters no need for MAGNUM's! We get close enough that are Non-Magnums work just fine. [Big Grin]

The Range is open -fire at will!!!
07 January 2003, 06:25
Brad
Well hot bore, I did backpack the entire Appalachian Trail in North Carolina in 1977 and my mother moved there in 1988 after tiring of northern winters so I suppose I KNOW a bit more about your state than you might think, and actually have covered more of it on foot than most blowhard's like you. So how many elk have you shot in NC? I've run into bears and boars in the mountains of NC... big ones, but at ranges where an 06 or 35 Whelen would be more than adequate. As I said, deer are easy to kill... any "bean field" shooting can be more than amply done with a 270... unless you just like recoil for recoil's sake. The only reason I like the power of a 338 WM here in SW Montna is because of grizzly bears... how many of those do you deal with in NC?

Grow up little man [Big Grin]
07 January 2003, 06:31
Brad
quote:
Originally posted by Hot Core:
[QUOTE]

And I remember a 700+ pound Black Bear killed by a Volkswagon quite a few years ago in SC near Myrtle Beach.
BTW hot bore, I don't put a VW in the "Magnum" category [Big Grin]
07 January 2003, 08:40
<bigcountry>
You big tough guy you.
07 January 2003, 10:49
Brad
quote:
Originally posted by bigcountry:
You big tough guy you.
Funny littlecountry, I don't remember addressing you or portraying myself as particularly "tough"... just pointing out that hotbore's ASSumption's have once again revealed him as an ass... a role he fills quite well...
07 January 2003, 11:35
<bigcountry>
Anybody that hikes that trail, we kinda laugh at here in this part of the country. Usually drive pink volvos, and were hippies and now superyups. Thought it was funny someone bragging about it.
07 January 2003, 11:37
XWind
Easy fellas. What say we talk about the need for magnums or back to that little issue our friends in Indiana are up against. Magnums may be all we have left, unless they can be shot from an autoloader, if this stuff gets a foothold. They have already submitted a Fiscal Analysis showing all those that might dare vote against this obviously logical bill that you are supporting 'bad guns and ammo' at the expense of the Education Fund, State and general Funds. Don't underestimate the politickers ability to weasel this stuff through. Here is an extracted quote:

From Indiana House Bill 1011
"Provides that the manufacture, importation, sale, or possession of ammunition for a machine gun, an automatic weapon, or a semiautomatic weapon is a Class C felony."

This IS a problem, not who can flame who... [Roll Eyes]

XWind
07 January 2003, 11:38
Hot Core
quote:
Originally posted by bigcountry:
Hot Core, finally got to see a bull the other day in Ky. All I have seen was calfs and cows. One of the calfs was walking up to people at the coal mines. DNR came in and killed it quietly that night we think. Somebody said it was a possible sign of one of the diseases. I didn't know they made it down to NC...
Hey bigcountry, Allright! Details, details, details? How close did you get to the Bull? Size? Was it East of Corbin?

Darn shame about the calf having to be killed. I've not heard anything at all about the disease getting into the herd. Lots of folks worrying about "if" it will reach them though.

One of my buddies is President of the Charlotte RMEF Chapter. He's kept me up to speed on the reintroduction of the Elk into our mountains. So far, they are reproducing better than anticipated. Not sure when the first hunt will be.

Oh yes, a relative sent me the HUGE write-up in the Courier-Journal last year when the guy killed the First Elk in KY. Quite good coverage.

How's the l-o-n-g range shooting going? I don't guess you can "claim" you are shooting a Magnum since that 300RUM doesn't have a Belt. [Big Grin]
07 January 2003, 12:03
Brad
quote:
Originally posted by bigcountry:
Anybody that hikes that trail, we kinda laugh at here in this part of the country. Usually drive pink volvos, and were hippies and now superyups. Thought it was funny someone bragging about it.
Funny BIGcountry, I don't remember "bragging" about it, just relating an experience to illustrate a point. I suppose someone like you who couldn't actually do it sees that as bragging... I suspect that's YOUR problem though... perhap's your physical condition? [Big Grin]

Your assumption's about someone you know nothing about put's you squarely in hotbore's turf!
07 January 2003, 12:07
Brad
What HolyCore, no more smart ass comments toward's someone who never addressed you. Jack Belk isn't on this thread so maybe you could kick him around as he's not looking. Perhap's you've never walked the mountains of NC... or CAN'T?
07 January 2003, 12:07
Hot Core
quote:
Originally posted by bigcountry:
Thought it was funny someone bragging about it.
Come on XWind, it is even "funnier" that bradley didn't realize "it was funny" that he bragged about it. Lighten up and enjoy laughing at him too.

It is real important for those of you just joining the Board to know who is really on our side of the Gun Issues. What you apparently don't realize is that bradly is all for getting rid of the American Gun Manufacturers. To quote bradly: "I wish Remington would go out of business!"

Yes, you would normally think of those words coming from Moscow bill clinton, heil-ery clinton, charles schumer, barbara boxer, sarah brady, al sharpton or even the alleged Gun Smith belk(Traitor to the Firearms Industry and ALL Sportsmen world wide), but the quote belongs to bradly.

Sure don't understand why Don Martin hasn't come in to tell us how "bad" Belts on cases are. [Wink]

[ 01-07-2003, 03:09: Message edited by: Hot Core ]
07 January 2003, 12:46
TBS
Hillbillybear, very interesting data. Did you notice that in .224 a difference of approx. 400 fps changed the drift and energy figures dramatically, especially at 500 yards. As you go up in caliber the drift and energy differences are much less between the standard and magnum rounds.
07 January 2003, 14:20
Brad
HolyBore... I'll take your silence to mean you're a lard ass [Big Grin]
07 January 2003, 15:28
browningguy
Back to the subject at hand, yes indeed we need magnum cartridges for NA big game hunting. Looking at the original charts that were posted there is enough difference with either velocity or bullet weight (take your pick) to reduce wind drift quite a bit at 300 yards. Most people seem to be worried about drop, this is relatively easy to compensate for if you are an expert at judging distance (or use modern technology). I haven't seen any technology to help you figure out wind drift yet. If you hunt Texas, and I'm sure most of the mountain states, you'll find yourself hunting in winds of 15-20 mph often and sometimes more.

More importantly, magnums give us an entire genre of firearms we need to buy because "we don't have one in that caliber yet".
08 January 2003, 03:19
<bigcountry>
Nope Brad, just don't have time for bullshit like that.
08 January 2003, 03:22
<bigcountry>
Hot Core, it was Christmas day. He was a nice 5X5. It was way back there though. We were out turkey scouting. I just can't believe my eyes seeing and hearing big elk in Eastern Ky. We got 50 yards to him and he smelled us. Going to take my camera in a few weeks.
08 January 2003, 13:05
Hot Core
quote:
Originally posted by bigcountry:
Going to take my camera in a few weeks.
Hey bigcountry, Good luck with the camera. Be sure to take a "Magnum Camera" so you can get the whole Elk in the flick. HA

Seriously, try to get a picture to share with us. I got in a buddy's truck the other day and he had a Bugling Elk Tape in the tapedeck. Had no idea until we took off and all of a sudden it went to bugling. HA, it did get me.

The RMEF Chapter President I mentioned is headed to New Mexico on Thursday for a Cow Elk hunt. Met him for lunch today and he is about as wound up as can be.

He is taking a fairly new Stainless & Synthetic 338WinMag M700 with handloaded 180gr Nosler B-Tips. He is planning to slip one right behind a shoulder.

Absolutely GREAT rifle with the OUTSTANDING Remington Factory Trigger. He was shooting some fine groups with it from the get-go. So, with a bit of luck, he will get to try it out on the real thing.
09 January 2003, 09:48
<phurley>
Yes, I really need my Magnums. But then again I also really need my Non-Magnums. When I bowhunted exclusively, I didn't think I even needed a rifle. OK, I forget, what is the question again. [Wink] Good shooting.
13 January 2003, 14:18
<Masher>
HBB,

For those of us that can really shoot, have proper shooting etiquette and an experienced level of displine, magnums ain't necessary...BUT, my friend we are living in an age if instant gratification and the masses NEED Magnums, and we need them to have'em, or else we'll face an even greater assault from the animal rights Bozos...Viva magnums, and let the shooters (all 100 or so of us, ha, ha!)shoot what we like and succeed!... Me I love the .30-.30!

JW
13 January 2003, 14:52
LE270
No, but they give gun writers and gun nuts and gun experimenters something to talk about, write about, and experiment with. Do we really need all these different brands of toothpaste or beer, or colors of automobiles? Again, no, but they give people choices and make for a more diverse existence.
13 January 2003, 16:17
<Fireball>
Well yes we need Magnum rounds!! This is the UNITED STATES of AMERICA..........Big Engines.......BIG SUV's........Big GULP ......Big Penises........and above all MAGNUM rounds.
Fireball
13 January 2003, 22:21
<BigBob>
hillbillybear,
I've had a bunch of rifles over the years. Now that I've gotten a little gimpy, I've sold off or given all but one rifle away. The one I kept is a .30-06. I have traded for another rifle in .308W, but that was to have something to play with. So I guess in a round about way, I'm saying I don't think that the magnums are really necessary for hunting in the lower 48. But I'd be the first one to say that the mags are great to play with. If a mag is what trips your wire, happy tripping. [Big Grin]

[ 01-13-2003, 13:22: Message edited by: BigBob ]
15 January 2003, 01:04
<Reloader66>
In any venue you may choose to excell it is desire and want not need that drives us all. You need water, food, shelter, to fuel the human machine in order to maintain it's life support systems. All inventions and inovations have come to pass through desire and want. Should desire and want be eliminated from the human psyche all posotive progress will cease. I applaude and welcome every new rifle and cartridge that is developed. All those small private shops and major rifle factories producing them. They are the life and breath of the American rifle industry. The American military machine would not have the tools it now does without men like John Browings, Colt, Smith and Wesson, Winchester, Weatherby, Ruger, Remington, genius fueled by their desire and want to excell and succeed. We want and desire them all but do not need any of them.
15 January 2003, 03:12
<bigcountry>
Well said Reloader66.