Ok gang I finally got to the range to test my 1st reloads. And Im glad to report that I returned home safe and sound. Things went quite well for my first time. Even my new F1 chrony worked flawlessly but I do have a couple of questions.

I was shooting a sig shr970. I loaded some once fired .270 brass with 54 grains of IMR 4831 with a 130 gr speer BT spitzer. Total cartridge length was 3.235 and at that length I believe the bullet was in contact with the lands (based on the rifling marks on the dummy rounds I tested in the chamber) I shot 5 shots and my chrony recorded them at the following speeds:

2860
2908
2807
2790

These speeds were recorded at a distance of approximately 12' from the muzzle. Do these speeds sound normal? I also tested some winchester power point factory ammo with 130 gr
and those varied between 2990 & 3073 fps.

Also my fired cases seemed to be more sooty around the neck after firing than the factory ammo. Is that a sign of high pressure?Otherwise the cases seem to be in good condition.

Any feedback you can provide is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Mike

#1). There is enough variation between rifles that to say any reasonable velocity is good or right is plain silly. Sounds like you are in the ball park, but you reload for better accuracy, especially with a hot rod like the .270 which was "fast" from the start (and high pressure... SAAMI 55K CUP).

Soot on the neck can often be low pressure. Neck isn't sealing well and you need to boost the load slightly to keep powder gases from coming back to leave deposits on the neck...

Of course you check the load against SEVERAL manuals first to make sure you are no where near excessive. In the books there should also be directions on "reading primers." If the primer has lots of "round" left to it, low pressure. If it is flatten out alot, that is high pressure. Again, I repeat, 270 was "hot" from day one (1926), so be extra careful. luck.

Mike your extreem spreads will drop as pressure rises. The factory velocities you found sound in the ballpark of what I`ve recorded from my 270. The previous poster has your sooty cases nailed, low pressure will not seal the brass against the chamber wall well. try uping the charge in 1.0 gr steps and see if velocity and accuracy improve, they should. The soot should also lessen or disapear.

Thanks for the info guys. I am just thrilled that the things actually fired without a problem. I will be out again tomorrow to do some more testing. Ol Joe I will try to increase the charges as you say. I will report back on the accuracy results. I will spend some time in the archives reading up on load testing. Mike

Mike27, the Speer manual #13 says that 54.0gr. to 58.0gr. and A FPS. 2971 at 58.0gr. So I would move up as the other guys have said. Congrats on the newly loaded rounds.

6.5 SWEDE

Last night I loaded up a few loads with 55 gr IMR 4831 and a few loads at 56 gr.

I went back out to the range today for more testing. I set up at 100 yards. Shooting the 55 gr I had a nice group going but one of shots was a flyer. So 6 of my 7 shots were all within an inch. Speeds were recorded at:

2889
2819
2889
2856
2882
2916
2916

The 56 gr ended up with a 7 shot group of 1 & 5/8 ". Speeds were recorded at:

2954
3000
2996
3024
3020
3020
2997

I have not noticed any high pressure issues with the fired brass. There still appears to be some soot on the neck but not as bad as when shooting the 54gr.

I need to shoot some more groups to get a good feel for which load is the most accurate. I am pleased with the results so far. Today was a rather breezy day here in Michigan.

Since I did not notice any pressure concerns with the brass would you recommend that I continue increasing the poweder load until I hit the max or see signs of high pressure?

What is your barrel lenght? 3000 fps is the max listed for a 22" in Speers #13, the only manual I have at hand useing IMR4831 and a 130 gr bullet. They did get that at 58 gr powder though. The fact you are seating the bullet at the lands could be raising psi some. IMRs web site shows 57 gr max with a 130 gr Barnes and 55.7 gr with a 130 gr hornady SP. I would be very observent if you raise the charge, and would use 1/2 gr increments.
It sounds like your doing fine

Holy cow ol Joe you are right. I just looked at my Speer book and I can see that at 56 gr I am already exceeding the velocities they had at 58 gr. My rifle has a 22 inch barrel. Now I am a little concerned about increasing the load.

I want to do this the right way so I guess I need to nail down at what measurement my bullet touches the lands. For me to do this properly what is my best bet tool wise? My midsouth catalog has a Hornady Lock-N-Load bullet Comparator and it also has a Hornady Lock-N-Load OAL Guage. Which one of these do I need?
I have tried double checking my measurements by using the cleaning rod method but my measurements didnt seem to match up with what I had by using the dummy round and marker. Thanks. Mike

Hodgdon say 55.8 grains max with IMR4831 and a 130 grain Hornady SP and that's at 50,300 CUP (not PSI)

Mike27, check out the RCBS Precision Mic set. This Mic set from RCBS will let you measure your headspace and bullet/ogive distances with the set components. I got one for my .243, and it is great. After reading the instructions and experimenting with it I was so glad I bought it I had to order one for my .270 and .308 Win. They are caliber/cartridge specific but I am really glad I got mine. 300 Win Mag will be next, their about $39.00 each w/o shipping.

In a hunting rifle there is no reason to seat the bullet to the lands.

Back them off ( .010? ) and start from 54 grs up again ( less powder capacity now, but less danger of a bullet seating deeper in the lands and raising pressure drastically )

Reason: If you have to extract a loaded round, the bullet might be left in the bore and powder spilled all over! No quick second shot!

H

Ok things are beginning to become a bit clearer ( I think). I had seen in the archives an easy way to find the COL that puts your bullet at the lands. This method involves cutting slits in an empty shell, placing the bullet in the neck and then chambering and closing the bolt. When you eject the shell you have the correct length to reload a shell to put the bullet at the lands. Here is where I get confused.

I did this and came up with a finished length of 3.244 however out of curiosity I then tried doing it again with another bullet (same brand, weight,etc) and this time came up with a length of 3.257 inches. This confused me and the conclusion I came to was one of two things is happening. Either the bullet was slipping out of the neck upon extraction or the length of the bullets varied. Sure enough it was the bullets. They were different lengths.

Bear with me on this as I am a total beginner but by me trying to work up loads based on a finished cartridge length is not really going to help me. I have to either measure to where the ogive touches the lands or check each bullet to match up the lengths. Would that be correct? I had read on the archives that the ogive of a particular style of bullet should not vary but it is common for the length to be different. Am I also correct in that thinking? Thanks for any guidance you can provide on this. This reloading is addicting. Mike

Mike27,
here is how I find the oal to touch.

1) Get a cleaning rod with a tip that is flat. this can be a jag or just the threads on the rod.

2) close bolt on rifle (empty of course) and insert the rod into the muzle end until it rests against the bolt face.

3) Mark rod with masking tape level with muzzle.

4) Remove rod, remove bolt, gently place a bullet (bullet only, not cartridge) into the chamber and gently push it until you feel it contact. Do not cram the bullet in. Put just enough presure on it so that it stays.

5) reinsert rod untill it just touches the bullet and mark the rod with tape.

6) measure distance between marks.

This will give you the OAL of cartridge to contact lands with that particular bullet. If you have a bullet comparator (6 sided nut with holes in it that you use with a regular caliper) you can measure the OAL to ogive and then you don't have to measure again for other brands/weights/designs of bullets.

Good luck.

Is the seating die constructed in such a manner so that the small difference in length of the bullets (same brand, weight, etc)does not impact the seating depth? Does it somehow push down on the bullet shoulder and not on the tip? If it pushes down on the shoulder them perhaps my concern of the varied length is not warranted. If someone can enlighten me on that I would sure appreciate it. Thanks. Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike27:
Is the seating die constructed in such a manner so that the small difference in length of the bullets (same brand, weight, etc)does not impact the seating depth?

Correct

quote:

Does it somehow push down on the bullet shoulder and not on the tip?

Yes and it is called the Ogive.

quote:

If it pushes down on the shoulder them perhaps my concern of the varied length is not warranted.

You are probably OK as long as you did not "Short Stroke" the Press during Seating.

Instead of tossing money away on a Thingy, go to your Tool Box and get the largest "Socket" that will not slip past the Ogive(shoulder) and set it atop a Seated Bullet. Then measure across from the Case Head to the top of the Socket with your 0.001" capable Calipers. That does the same thing as the Thingy - at no extra cost to you.
-----

Sit down with a box of Bullets at a Table with your Caliper. Begin measuring the Overall Bullet Length and place the shortest Bullets "by length" to your left. As they get longer place them appropriately to the right.

As you go through this exercise, you will learn that the Bullets coming from the same Box vary in length. Some Match Grade Bullets are fairly close, but they still vary too.

The good news is you can repeat the process with the Socket and they are darn near exactly the same length. That means the "Variance" is from the point on the Ogive you make contact with Forward. It is about the same spot as where your Seating Stem should also contact the Ogive.

To add a bit of complexity to the entire situation, there are some REALLY Sleek Bullets on the market today. Those can be a problem for the Seating Stem because the "Tip" of those Super High Ballistic Coefficient Bullets may make contact with the Stem before the Ogive does. Now you do have a problem. You can verify if you do by removing the Seating Stem and setting a Bullet in it. If it wobbles, you have a problem because the Tip is touching.

You can take a chance at drilling the Seating Stem a bit and might make it work with a very small bit and a very good Drill Press. Best thing to do though is to contact the people that made your Die and see if they have a Special Stem designed for the Super Sleek Bullet. If they do, get it. If they don't, then you can change Bullets, or go to a Custom Seater.

Nothing is easy with the Super Sleek Bullets.

Best of luck to you.

I have lyman, Lee, RCBS, Wilson and Foster dies. The only one that does not vary seating depths with different bullets is the Foster micrometer seating die. There are surely others but check yours by actually measuring the results.

John

Well I took a hacksaw and cut 2 slits in a resized case, slipped a bullet in, chambered it and then removed it to check the length. I was totally surprised to see how deep the bullet was set. According to this measurement I have been loading rounds that were well into the lands and may very well explain the seemingly high velocities on my test rounds. I had a rebate coupon for Cabelas so I just ordered the RCBS precision mic. Hopefully it will provide me with some good measurements. Thanks everyone for the tips. Mike

quote:

Originally posted by JohnAir:
I have lyman, Lee, RCBS, Wilson and Foster dies. The only one that does not vary seating depths with different bullets is the Foster micrometer seating die. There are surely others but check yours by actually measuring the results.

John

They all vary because the bullets all vary.
Measure a lot of bullets and you will find the base to ogive length also varies.

I did and they do. Thanks Ireload. I guess the fosters didn't because I was using match bullets. I love this site, you can learn something new everyday. Thanks again.

A very interesting thread as I am about to do my first reloads as well... Bullet seating was going to be one of those questions I would have asked and this thread pretty well took care of that... It's good to see some informed and experienced replies offered here...

Being concerned with the lands will only be a concern on my '06, the other is a Weatherby so the freebore will make that essentially impossible (and unwanted I am sure)...

Just wanted to reply with an overall "thanks" to those out there that take the time to help educate we rookies ...

Ken....