I have been having trouble with my shoulders coming out of the press diffrent. with the stony point coparitor I will have 5 come out the way I wont and 2 or 3 come out smaller I put the same amount of presher on the handle.what should i do .I have a rock chucker press and RCBS and redding dies

quote:

Originally posted by Varmitshooter:
...with the stony point coparitor I will have 5 come out the way I wont and 2 or 3 come out smaller

Let me see if I understand this. You size a number of cases, and measure them with the Stoney Point Headspace Gauge Tool (i.e. this gizmo: http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?catego...tem=HK-55&type=store). When you do this, you get varying measurements, and wonder why. Have I understood your question correctly??

If yes, how much variance do you see in the measurements with the Head Space Gauge?? .001", .002" or much larger numbers??

I find brass from the same lot can vary about .001" (to perhaps .002") in headspace after firing in the same chamber. That difference also shows up when I size the cases in my FL sizing die (set up to push back the shoulder .001-.002"). Why the difference?? All I can say is that brass varies... One of the few universal truths in reloading...

- mike

it varys about from 1.563 to 1.561 1560

how meny thow can I getaway with before it afecks accurece

Assuming that you are not using mixed brass and that your equipment is tight, it may be time to anneal.

what do u mean

Are you lubeing the inside of your case mouths? The expander ball can drag and pull the shoulders back out some if the ball is grabbing on the inner neck. There will also be some brass "spring back". This is due to the brass resisting the sizeing and trying to remain in it fire formed state. Annealing will help some (heat treating) but I wouldn`t worry too much about the little bit of shoulder variation hurting your accuracy unless you are shooting one very accurate rifle. As the brass work hardens and neck tension starts to vary annealing will extend case life but I still doubt you will be able to tell the diffference in accuracy with a factory rifle.

Ole Joe.....has hit the nail on the head perfectly.

Hey varmit

How many times have you fired the brass?

Brass will continue to expand for the first few firings until it has expanded enough to have a crush fit.

For example in a 30-06 I load for as measured by the Headspace Gauge I get the following measurements (all neck sized only):

New cases - 4.0400"
Once fired - 4.0485"
Twice fired - 4.0500"
3 times fired - 4.0510" (slight crush fit)
4 times fired - 4.0515" (crush fit)

The reason I bring this up is because until your brass has expanded to completely fill the chamber, sizing the case body will push the shoulder forward varying amounts. This is because the shoulder is not being sized and controlled.

Now in the above example I neck sized only which allows the shoulder naturally grow out to meet the chamber. If you size the case body it will prematurely push the shoulder out to the die if you have the die set to PFLR and shorten the cycle.

The amount of lube you use on your brass can vary how much it will push into the sizing die. To cure this just withdraw the case enough to turn it 180° and slowly size it again. You should be able to repeat within about .002 total using this technique but it with take some practice.

This sounds like the press and dies are not being used right. The dies should be set up so the handle goes over center.
The give away was when he said he puts the same pressure on each case. The dies are in too far!

the brass is geting smaller not biger the 1.563 is ware i want it and the other 1/4 are smaller

Brass has a "memory" and has a tendency to spring back some after resizing. Variations are not uncommon as individual cases vary in hardness, original length etc. If you anneal all of your brass to the exact degree of hardness, and could somehow uniform the thickness of the brass at the datum line where you are measuring, then you could maybe get very uniform measurements.
As for allowable differences, for accuracy only your rifle knows. One way to find out would be to measure all the resized brass, divide into groups, shoot about 5 groups with cases that are the same to develop a base line average and then start introducing a case of diffent length and see how it affects your groups. However if you are using this rifle for anything but competition the only thing you will accomplish is the "I have to know syndrome". Yes, group sizes will grow as the extreme differences are compared, but it will not be as severe as mixing brands or lots of brass and in a hunting situation a hit will be a hit and a miss will not be caused by the couple of tenths in the group size. Minute of moose is a pretty large number as minute of mice would be a little more critical.

www.duanesguns.com

quote:

Originally posted by Varmitshooter:
I have ...the stony point coparitor ....what should i do ...

Sell it to Woods, or toss it in the trash.

If you are using your Cartridges in a Bolt Action, set them to P-FLR and forget you ever got suckered into buying the "Thingy".

Best of luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Varmitshooter:
I have ...the stony point coparitor ....what should i do ...

Sell it to Woods, or toss it in the trash.

If you are using your Cartridges in a Bolt Action, set them to P-FLR and forget you ever got suckered into buying the "Thingy".

Varmitshooter, you can safely ignore Hot Core's comment. Although a very experienced reloader and (I assume) in general an intelligent guy, Hot Core seems to suffer from pavlovian conditioning to the term "Stoney Point Headspace Gauge".

It seems every time the poor lad encounters the term, he develops a bad case of frothing at the mouth, and has to jump into the discussion regardless of whether he has anything constructive to offer or not. I'm not quite sure if there is a scientific term for his condition, but we get to observe it regularly here.

- mike

quote:

It seems every time the poor lad encounters the term, he develops a bad case of frothing at the mouth, and has to jump into the discussion

I'm shocked that ANYONE had noticed!



By the way Mike, Telling him to begin P-FLRing his cases and TRASH the "Thingy" appears to be the best advice he has gotten so far.

Lube the case mouth with a lube that does not harm the powder or primer and make sure the die is clean with no lube buildup.

quote:

Originally posted by mho:

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Varmitshooter:
I have ...the stony point coparitor ....what should i do ...

Sell it to Woods, or toss it in the trash.

If you are using your Cartridges in a Bolt Action, set them to P-FLR and forget you ever got suckered into buying the "Thingy".

Varmitshooter, you can safely ignore Hot Core's comment. Although a very experienced reloader and (I assume) in general an intelligent guy, Hot Core seems to suffer from pavlovian conditioning to the term "Stoney Point Headspace Gauge".

It seems every time the poor lad encounters the term, he develops a bad case of frothing at the mouth, and has to jump into the discussion regardless of whether he has anything constructive to offer or not. I'm not quite sure if there is a scientific term for his condition, but we get to observe it regularly here.

- mike

Good one Mike! That's the best explanation I've seen so far. HC should open up a club and call it the "Hot Core Pavlovian Society". Course he might be the only member.



BTW, also do not mention "strain gauges".

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

It seems every time the poor lad encounters the term, he develops a bad case of frothing at the mouth, and has to jump into the discussion

I'm shocked that ANYONE had noticed!



By the way Mike, Telling him to begin P-FLRing his cases and TRASH the "Thingy" appears to be the best advice he has gotten so far.

Well taken HC. Apart from using slightly different tools than you do, I totally agree with the advice to set up the dies for PFL sizing.

- mike

Hey Mike, It takes a real blithering idiot(like denton and rookie green) to get me irritated. I took your post as a good natured needling. If that is wrong, let me know and I'll "think about" working up a good ole mad condition.

I realize a lot of folks like the "Thingys" and wish them all the best of luck - because they obviously need it.
-----

quote:

do not mention "strain gauges".

As a matter of fact, I currently have a PM going with a rather astute fellow concerning HSGSs. We all need to remember Dr. Oehler "prefers" to refer to them as Haphazard Strain Gauge Systems. Always nice to be able to quote a fellow who's opinion I respect.

Come to think of it, Dr. Oehler pretty much destroyed ALL the incorrect and illogical concepts that denton, and the people he fooled or continues to fool, blowharded about in that one thread.

I take no GREAT pleasure in their complete and total ignorance being NUKED out of the water.

Are you FL sizing? Why?