Brass Conversion Question. 30-30 to 32 Winchester
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Some 25 years ago I acquired a 310 Martini Cadet that had been converted to a 32 Winchester Special.
I fired maybe 3-4 rounds of factory ammunition at which point I realized something was terribly wrong. Not only did it not hit the inside of the barn I was in but the pressures were stupid high.

Roll the clock forward to today, it is time to make it a plinker / shooter with reduced loads.

Slugging the barrel; the Bore / Groove is .311 / .316.?. At any rate it is obvious that the factory jacketed bullets at .321 was at least part of the problem.

So here are two questions I hope someone will comment on;
I found 100 new Hornady 30-30 brass cases which I want to modify to 32 Winchester Special. Given their dimensions are so close it should be a no brain-er.

1, Should I Fire Form to Fit or just modify with the 32 Win Sp dies ?
2, Should I anneal the cases first..?

After casting the chamber it is apparent that the reamer used during the conversion process was .025 longer than SAAMI spec.
And there is basically no freebore in the bore or leade from chamber mouth into the rifling.
I guess I could trim my brass to 2.040 (SAAMI spec) and use the excess chamber length as my freebore... ???

Finding a bullet has been somewhat of a rabbit hunt.
The twist is 1/20. Necessitating a bullet of no more than .74" using the Greenhill formula.

I could have a mould made utilizing a healed design like the original 310 Cadet or perhaps a design using a stop ring like the 8.14 X 46R [180 gr, RN--.915"] (Buffalo Arms) shortened for my twist. Unfortunately this design has a stop ring of .326 which I don't know if my groove of .316 just couldn't handle that..?

One last observation;
In your opinion is the groove depth of .0025 enough to grip 1/20 lead projectile. Seems a might shallow to me. Thoughts?

So before I spend $$$ on a mould I thought others might have some experience with such issues.

Thanks to all in advance.

RJM in Jax

Just run them over the .32 expander plug. That is all that will be needed.
Groove depth and alloy bullets is all dependent on velocity. At a certain velocity, the grooves will be too shallow. Ever see a .58 Rifle-Musket barrel? The grooves are (3) tapering from .010 to .003 at the muzzle. But, the bullets are real slow. Look at modern revolver barrels....and any rifle barrel.
Only way to see with any particular set up is to shoot it and see.
Aren't there bullets out there close to 316 that you can test? Buffalo Arms maybe. .

Thank you.
Buffalo Arms has one bullet with a .316 driving band but the stop ring is .326 or .010 over my grove diameter.

In addition it is .915" long which according to my calculations will not stablize in my 20 twist barrel.
You are right though, it is time to just go out and experiment with it.

I have a number of pistol bullets for revolvers in the .313 size. 100 grains and 120 grains
I am thinking of just bumping them up to .317 as a start..

Thanks again.

Paper patch, or easier, teflon tape them.

30-30 brass into a 32 Spl F/L sizing die and you've got brass.

Hawk Bullets makes a 150 gr copper jacketed bullet at .316" diameter. They're not cheap, but those ought to be perfect for your Martini. See http://hawkbullets.com

I've used Hawks in several otherwise hard to feed cartridges and have been very pleased with their performance.

DPCD-- Teflon, I like it, I'll try it..Thanks

Craig -- Now that I have resurrected my reloading equipment from 20 years ago, I'll try that first. I always believed either way would work. Just was looking for thoughts on the best way, if there is one. Thanks

Steve, -- thanks for the heads up on Hawks bullets.

the only problem with Teflon tape is the production of fluorine gas.

fire form your cases to fit your chamber.
they will shrink when you fire them so I wouldn't trim them.

use the no throat to your advantage.
find a bore ride bullet that fits the lands.
it will help center your brass case.

something like this cut to your diameters will do the job just fine and eliminate a bunch of your problems.

http://accuratemolds.com/img/b...detail/31-140A-D.png

I must be doing something wrong then because I have fired lots of teflon taped bullets.
Didn't notice no fluorine gas.
And fire form a 30-30 to 32? Seriously, that is doing it the hard way.
Disclaimer; Of course as always, just the way I do things and everyone is free to do it any way they like. Cuts down on the hate mail I get.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
30-30 brass into a 32 Spl F/L sizing die and you've got brass.

Depending on the expander ball in your .32 Spl sizing die, a little extra sizing lube in your case mouths might help. Then simply load .32 caliber bullets.

I've made long taper expanding plugs for various calibers, and I regularly expand 7mm and .300 RUM cases up to .375 RUM in one stroke, without annealing the cases first.

Here is an offer for the OP; I will make you an expander plug to fit into any Lee expander die; PM me your address and I will send it to you.
To make 32 brass from 30-30, and to fit your .316 bullets.
All you need is any Lee die; they make a universal expander die I think but I use a 45-70 one; big enough for anything. You just change out the plugs to expand anything. And like Buffy the Vampire Slayer says; that technique works well.

The LEE UNIVERSAL expander die is meant mostly for cast bullets, it only BELLS the case mouth. It consists of a die body and 2 expander/belling plugs. The plugs are cone shaped and not meant to expand a whole case neck like in most sizing dies.

Hip

Ok, you didn't read my post; I make custom plugs with long tapers and long neck sections, out of tool steel, to expand any size brass to any size you want; I am not saying use the factory plug at all.
I am offering to Make For Free, a custom plug for the OP; I just use the Lee die body; NOT the factory plugs; I throw them away.

I think we are all not reading each other very well.
of course I tend to short cut my typing thinking the OP or whomever has enough experience to fill in the steps.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I must be doing something wrong then because I have fired lots of teflon taped bullets.
Didn't notice no fluorine gas.

Teflon decomposes into unhelpful chemicals. Maybe the temperatures experienced in the barrels don't get high enough to decompose it, or maybe the gases dissipate two feet from the shooter's nose (or combine with other residues to form something less harmful).

https://www.fluoridealert.org/...composition.prod.htm

DPCD,

That is an incredibly kind offer.
Thank you. I will send a PM once I get my reloading bench back up and running.

LAMAR,
Again thanks for the suggestion to have a bore ride nose bullet mould made.
Would you go .001--.00? under bore...??
I usually cast 1 in 20 but thought harder might be better for this cartridge if it is to be used for light hunting.

My shooting goal for the 'little rifle' is to have fun with gallery loads but someday I want to pass this on to one of my son's who may want it as a light deer rifle.

Thanks again for the idea and the "design".

BTW, I appreciate all the suggestions from you and everyone else.
My experience has been somewhat limited to straight wall case designs. I have had a couple of rifles built with close tolerance chambers. Pacific Tool cut the reamers for me (35-40 Maynard and 38-55 (2.08)Both designs were meant primarily for BPCR silhouette. I don't mind a little case neck trimming to ensure a good start.

I am new to bottle necks even if they headspace on the rim.
So filling in the steps is always appreciated.

RJM

The teflon tape does not decompose when you shoot it on bullets; it is the same as when you put it on, except with grooves in it. Not sure why someone is crying wolf on something they have not done. I have.
As for rimmed bottle necked brass; essentially, everything in front of the rim is clearance, more or less.
It's not rocket surgery.

Some of the Bullet Casters sell 8mm NAmbu pistol bullets. They are usually .320d and 105gr.+
There're jacketed NAmbu bullets out there too from common sources but they are usually lighter in weight.
A cast lead at .320d should work OK I'd think in a .316 groove dia and the light loaded 32Win Spcl.

I've used them in 8mm Mauser and 32Remington and they were very accurate w/ RedDot powder loads.

If you go with the 32 Win.Spl. you can also form your brass from .375 Win. with one stroke in the sizing die.