I loaded some rounds to take to the range. Ill post all my loads below:

Gun used: Beretta M9

115gr copper plated round nose round data:
5.3 gr unique 1.155 COL tight crimp
5.5 gr unique 1.155 COL tight crimp
5.7 gr unique 1.155 COL tight crimp

4.5 gr autocomp 1.155 COL tight crimp
4.7 gr autocomp 1.155 COL tight crimp
5.0 gr autocomp 1.155 COL tight crimp

147GR copper plated round nose.. no crimp used. just got case flaring back to normal. the projectiles fit tight though. couldnt budge them at all banging them on a table
3.8 gr unique 1.155 COL no crimp
4.0 gr unique 1.155 COL no crimp
4.2 gr unique 1.155 COL no crimp

3.6 gr autocomp 1.155 COL no crimp
3.8 gr autocomp 1.155 COL no crimp
4.0 gr autocomp 1.155 COL no crimp

All of the rounds fired just fine. Only problem I have is there is cratering on ALL of the primers. I have my firing pin indent, then a slightly raised flat ring around the primer strike. The primers are otherwise normal looking, no flowing, not bubbling, and the edges still have a slight gap with the case. One thing I also noticed is I have a fair ammount of slowly burned powder in my barrell. Its as if the powder didnt completely burn. I have no copper plating in the barrell, accuracy was god for all rounds, but it was excellent in the middle of the loads.. 5.5, 4.7, 4.0, 3.8.. Any ideas?

My COL isn't exact every round either. It varies by .005 either way. I think that is coming from me not putting the same pressure on my seating stroke with the press. Sometimes I push harder than others. That comes with time im guessing, to get a good feel for it.
I'm thinking my crimp could be a problem or it could be how right the bullets are. Or maybe theyre not tight enough.

Just realized something that might be useful. I have the hornady LNL progressive press. When I originally set my seating die, I did so with no other dies in the press. I was seating the rounds deep.. like 1.150+-.005
I reset the seating die this time by putting a casing in every station, as well as all my dies installed, then set my seating die to 1.159
Now I just loaded about 100 rounds and they are all 1.159+- .002.
I think by setting the seating die the way I did the first time, my shell plate was flexing, giving me a different depth than what I get with a shell in very station to keep it more level.

Still dont know if this caused any of the problems in the original posting with the powder not fully burning and the primer mark.

I did tak the M9 apart and dropped a dummy bullet in the chamber to see where it sat. Then dropped a factory round in.. They both sit about the same. I cant tell exactly but by eyeballing it, looks the same. Thats not to say it isnt a few .001 off.

Common with striker fired aemi auto pistols. Glocks are notorious for a "swipe" on the primer with most loads.
Primer condition unless leaking or pierced are not reliable pressure indicators

quote:

Originally posted by Ol` Joe:
Common with striker fired aemi auto pistols. Glocks are notorious for a "swipe" on the primer with most loads.
Primer condition unless leaking or pierced are not reliable pressure indicators

+1

Why are you crimping 9mm?

The cartridge headspaces on the case mouth.

You don't "Crimp" the 9MM or any other case that headspaces on the case mouth, but you DO use the crimp die or seating die adjustment to remove the flare, plus maybe a thou or two more.

Do not apply a heavy crimp especially with plated bullets.

Yeah I just started doing that. I flare the mouth about .001 to maybe .002.. just barely enough to get the bullet to stay in there. Then Im seating with just enough crimp to return the flare back to the specs in the hornady manual. I pulled some of the older bullets and there was a light indent where I had crimped tightly. The new rounds ,I pulled a couple to see and theres no ring and they hold in there tightly still.

You do not have a problem. Stop crimping; just remove the flare; your bullet must hold in place without crimping; if it doesn't your expander plug is too big and you can't correct it with a crimp; for your future loading endeavors. As for COL; .005 is nothing.

Perhaps getting about 3-4 updated manuals (ie lyman, lee, hornady, speer, etc) and read the instruction before the data. You might have prevented this problem. I see several references alluding to this in them. Just a thought.

Light charges in 9x19 can leave totally flattened primers. As pressure goes up, the flattening disappears. Not your issue, just pointing out the primer appearance is not always indicative of a problem. Compare primer appearance to a factory round.
You may want to get a stronger firing pin spring.
I would seat a bullet, "crimp," and then pull the bullet. With such a minimal flare, you could be scrapping off the copper plating and damaging your bullets. I use more flare than that, but you may have just enough.
I like to know what factory rounds feel like and where and how far they throw the cases. This gives me further "data" to judge a load as I work up.
I have one manual that lists 5.2gn of Unique with a 115gn bullet as max and another lists 5.5gn. Starting load should be around 4.5-4.6gn.
Your 115gn Autocomp loads are all in the range of various starting loads, with 5.5gn being the lowest max load.
Again, for 147gn bullets, I show 3.8gn for Unique as the Max in one manual and 4.4gn in another, so again you are starting in Max load range. Your AutoComp loads look fine, with 4.0gn being max in one manual.
I always reference multiple sources for starting loads and start with the lowest.
Finally, the force of the slide will chamber slightly tight cases, but you should be sure that all rounds pass the "plunk" test in the barrel's chamber.

quote:

Originally posted by noylj:
Light charges in 9x19 can leave totally flattened primers. As pressure goes up, the flattening disappears......

After 40 years of shooting and reloading this is news to me. I read a lot of BS on the internet and rarely call it but I am in this case. BS. Light charges in 9mm will not leave "totally flattened primers".

Ericsl2, the primer you photographed is not cratered. The round edges indicate mild pressure as does the presence of unburned powder in the barrel. Here is a link to a good photo of a cratered primer. The small variation you are seeing in COL is normal and harmless. You are doing good, all you need now is some more experience.

Back to you noylj, I have never seen the phenomenon you describe nor have I ever heard about it nor have I ever read about it. All of my experience and all of my reading and all of my discussions indicate the opposite. Not only are you peddling BS, it is dangerous BS. When encountering "totally flattened primers" increasing the load is a dangerous error. You can peddle harmless BS on the internet all you want, don't peddle dangerous BS to noobs.

Tim, be careful when you call BS. A load that is too light will do exactly that....flatten the primer. The firing pin hits the primer which goes off and drives the case forward. If the load is too light, the case will move back while the primer is still against the bolt face and flatten the primer. I see it more with rifle cases than with pistol, but it can happen with both. It is one of the cautions with someone say trying to get low recoil loads for their 308 and using 30-30 loading data. Sometimes you will just see the primer still backed out a little and sometimes it will flatten when the case finally comes back. You will also see soot on the neck usually. See in your 41st year you learned something.

How do I know? I have done it. Do a search here. You will find the same answer. However, in my Alliant manual 5.5 grains of Unique is max with the 115 grain bullet. The OP primers look fine to me.

I guess I'd better retract my BS call and apologize. This is one reason I don't very often call BS, because though I know a lot, I don't know it all. I have never seen what you are talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by Suwannee Tim:
After 40 years of shooting and reloading this is news to me. I read a lot of BS on the internet and rarely call it but I am in this case. BS. Light charges in 9mm will not leave "totally flattened primers".

Ericsl2, the primer you photographed is not cratered. The round edges indicate mild pressure as does the presence of unburned powder in the barrel. Here is a link to a good photo of a cratered primer. The small variation you are seeing in COL is normal and harmless. You are doing good, all you need now is some more experience.

Back to you noylj, I have never seen the phenomenon you describe nor have I ever heard about it nor have I ever read about it. All of my experience and all of my reading and all of my discussions indicate the opposite. Not only are you peddling BS, it is dangerous BS. When encountering "totally flattened primers" increasing the load is a dangerous error. You can peddle harmless BS on the internet all you want, don't peddle dangerous BS to noobs.

The link to a "cratered" primer is likely due to an oversize firing pin hole rather than too much pressure. I say this because the primer is still seated deeply and has a generous radius all around the outside diameter.

quote:

After 40 years of shooting and reloading this is news to me. I read a lot of BS on the internet and rarely call it but I am in this case. BS. Light charges in 9mm will not leave "totally flattened primers".

Sorry, sir, but I assure you it is true. I just went though it again a month ago. Maybe it is just my primers and my guns, but I assure that I fire a very light load and get a flattened primer.
I have no reason for the happening, just that I have noted it several times. If it doesn't happen to you, fine, I'm just saying that if you see flattening and the load is light, it MAY not mean high pressure.

quote:

Back to you noylj, I have never seen the phenomenon you describe nor have I ever heard about it nor have I ever read about it. All of my experience and all of my reading and all of my discussions indicate the opposite. Not only are you peddling BS, it is dangerous BS. When encountering "totally flattened primers" increasing the load is a dangerous error. You can peddle harmless BS on the internet all you want, don't peddle dangerous BS to noobs.

Again, sorry for telling what I have encountered several time. I always start out at the lowest starting load I can find--do you? This is what I tell everyone. When I then fire this light starting load and the gun barely cycles and the primers are flattened, I do not consider the problem to be high pressure at that point--if all other signs are of low pressure. I then go on to the next load. This load then shows no flattening and that continues as I work up.
Personally, primer appearance is a very minor part of pressure signs and one needs to look at all the primers as they work up the load to determine what, if anything, they are seeing.
No BS from me. No reason to BS. Sorry if my observations don't meet with your approval, but I simply stating that it possible, maybe on in some guns or some primers, for a low pressure round to flatten the primer and that other signs of pressure must also be observed.
Besides, I thought I was quite clear about it being a "KNOWN" low pressure load.
If someone preaches primer appearance as the be all and end all of pressure signs will lead one into a great deal of trouble.
You need to know the recoil of factory ammo for that bullet weight and where your gun throws the empties of factory ammo. You need to measure the pressure bulge of the case for factory ammo and for your reloads (this is NOT the "Glock" bulge, but the bulge every case get about 1/4" above the extractor groove). You need to look at the primers as you work up. If you have a chronograph, you use it.