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Great example. The way to keep the Jet from locking up the cylinder was to make sure to keep the case and chamber clean and dry. Oil and case shape DO affect bolt thrust.... a lot! | |||
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Rikki: A complete head separation typically has nothing to do with excessive pressure and everything to do with the condition of the brass. It is most often caused by thinning of the brass at the "pressure ring" just in front of the head. This is the point at which the brass case head tapers into the walls and becomes thin enough that the case wall expands against the wall of the chamber while the brass below the pressure ring maintains its shape and does not. Full length sizing will allow this pressure ring to grow thinner and thinner (as well as work harden), thus precipitating a head separation. Head separations on new brass are due solely to defective brass, not to high pressure; that is, pressure beyond what the cartridge/gun was designed for. With non-defective brass, excessive pressure (and it has to be GREATLY excessive) will blow a hole in the unsupported side of the case below the pressure ring, but the head will not likely separate. Separations from thinning/work hardening usually appear as simple annular cracks -- you can place the two halves together and they fit perfectly. On the other hand, separations from excessive pressure show up as gaping holes. Cases for the 8x57 likely have to be full length sized in order to allow its break-open action to close on reloaded rounds. It is understandable, considering the scarcity of 8x57 brass (this is rimmed, right?), that you would naturally be using brass which has been FL sized and using it as many times as possible. My advice is to "bite the bullet" and break out those 80 rounds of new brass for the 8x57 and toss the older brass which has been FL sized more than twice. Good luck on your Eland hunt! That is one of the species that I did not take on my 2007 trip to Namibia, so it is on my list for next year. Most people don't realize that a big Eland bull will outweigh a Cape Buffalo. If Eland had the same personality as buffalo, they'd be a lot more dangerous! I've never had anything but excellent antelope meat (springbock, oryx, blesbock). I understand that Eland meat is among the best of the antelope, true? | |||
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Have to agree that it may be time to break out some new brass. Brass seems to age even just sitting around. I have reloaded ammo that was loaded 25 years ago that has split necks and I know they were not split when they were loaded but have split in storage. The gages I was referring to are these: http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...mm-mauser-8mm-mauser Good luck and keep us posted and get that eland. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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Stonecreek, You're right about the 8x57 being a rimmed cartridge - that's what makes it so very scarce in these parts - 8x57JS is no major problem - it's always been a well respected calibre, because there were a good supply of them around after WWII, and the ban on the "J" calibre (.318") Concerning the head separation, that would have been with PMP brass. I haven't had the opportunity to inspect the remnants of the incident, but I suspect it would have been the 'tear-off' scenario you described, of which I had more than a few with my old .303 Lee Enfield, due to pushing case life to the limits. Weren't those great days, when every cent spent counted? I think what I'll do, is to get Hanne some quality virgin brass for the 7mm (I can think of sources for PMP, Remington, Norma and probably Winchester), and keep her hunting loads to virgin or maybe once-fired brass. After that, those cases can be relegated to club target shoots, of which she does quite a bit. That can be done with low-pressure reloads, until she wants to get into 300m, and then the question probably needs to be asked whether 7x57 is really the ideal calibre for the application. | |||
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I have some 303 Brit cases that are 30 years old. They don't get reloaded everyday and those I did lose were due to split necks and the long grass. Case head separation and case elongation went away with case lubing. I never need to trim the length either. I should be surprised if an un-full length resized case would not fit back into the chamber. After all, it came out of that chamber. Sometimes neck sizing and seating a bullet can cause the case to swell a little just past the shoulder. I have had that. The trick is to use minimum neck sizing and not all the way. I used to check each reloaded cartridge for fit but stopped doing that as I never had any problems. For case life and reliability one ideally needs a custom sizer die. Just thinking, Somchem would hardly have load data for the 8x57 Rimmed, would it? Anyway, the strength (more importantly, the stiffness of the action can be determined by what other chamberings that rifle comes in. The only load data for the JRS I could find quickly was using N144 and it wasn't an anaemic load but no idea of pressures. But even the starting loads for the JS should be good to go. I don't see why the 7x57 should be a problem for 300m. 140's or 150's might be a better bullet choice for longer range. You know, I'd still look at slower powders but I can't say that your choices would be the most suitable but why not? A powder that produces bottom end velocity with a full case should be good. Ball powders are very compressible but one needs to be careful when moving out of 'standard' load data. Look at powders that fill a 30-06 case with normal velocities. Look at the minimums and see how low the pressures go. Powders listed with low starting pressures should burn cleanly. Just to give an idea what loading tables don't tell you, H4350 is indicated for the 303 Brit but not for the 308. Reason? You can't get enough into a 308 case to get 308 performance yet it works fine in the same sized 303 case. Start loads for the 308 are around max for the 303. See what I'm getting at? Regards 303Guy | |||
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Just before I leave on my hunt. (Pack tomorrow, have lunch with my 'prodigal' daughter and leave at sparrows' on Thursday) Stonecreek - Springbuck, Gemsbuck and Fallow Deer (an import) are great table meat. However, I consider Eland to be top of the crop. It compares well with beef, which IMHO comes a very distant second, and as an added bonus, Eland is cholestrol-free. Not that this is vital to me, but it makes my cardiologist happy. So, sorry for the cattle ranchers (my uncle included), but I'll fill my freezers with Eland, thank y'all very much...... Blacktailer - those case gauges are new to me. However, they seem to do pretty much the same as what my cases resized with blackened necks before resizing are doing, or am I missing something? I will keep an eye open for them however - who knows - maybe I get lucky and find a set. Otherwise we might have to punish the credit card? To everyone who has contributed - thank you so much. Given the world-wide insight and experience you have offered so far on the issues, I can only count myself as priviledged. Right now, all I can concentrate on is the sweet smell of cordite in the morning!!!  | |||
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You owe us a report on your eland hunt when you return, you know! | |||
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In deference to Stonecreek's comment - I'm back, there's quite literally a ton of assorted venison in my mate's coldroom and the clans are gathering wearing bibs and wielding sharpened steak knives  Between four of us, we took two Eland (mine a young bull for the table and the other a big bull of 31.5"); a Warthog and an Impala ram (an old warrior with broken horns, lots of scars and a healing bullet wound in a hind leg).The bush was very dense and tinder-dry, which made the hunting tricky, so we can actually count ourselves lucky to all have shot what we had planned. Naturally the companionship was great. It was good to swop lies around the campfire with good friends and the distant roaring of Lions in the background. Despite all the political nonsense and turbulence in RSA, I realised anew how privileged I am to live where I live. Of course, I had plenty of opportunity to reflect on the nonsense and turbulence as I drove past the scene of the recent Lonmin mine shooting at Marikana on the way home. Here's one for the naysayers. My good friend Norman shot his big Eland with his SMLE .303 ('scoped, but otherwise bog-standard). A factory 174gr PMP on the point of the shoulder (angling toward) did the job just fine. The bull didn't go 10 yards and certainly didn't need another. | |||
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Try the norma brass to se if your pmc is the problem. | |||
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Congratulations on a great hunt! I can only say that it's a good thing that eland don't have computers and read internet chat rooms about hunting and ballistics. Otherwise, your friend's eland would have realized that it couldn't be killed with something as impotent and obsolete as a .303 and would have just run off into the brush with nothing more serious than a skin rash from the lowly .303. Similarly, the whitetails in Texas are equally tech-challenged, apparently because very few deer pastures have access to broadband. They keep falling over dead from one shot of my grandson's little cut down Sako .223. By the way, how is warthog meat? On the Namibian farm we hunted all of it was given to the farm laborers (along with a great deal of other game meat) and the farm owner didn't bother to keep any for himself. But he said that his employees were very fond of warthog. | |||
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Stonecreek Warthog meat can be the very best available, or it can break your teeth like chewing a brick. I've often been called a bastard because of my penchant for 'suckling pigs'. Done on a spit, well-basted with honey and mustard, a baby pig is EXQUISITE, but it does take some wrangling with one's conscience to really enjoy it. Older Warty's (mostly female, but adolescent) can be good in a patient casserole, but the real toothy old buggers are best made into cabanossi or salami. I normally ask my butcher to smoke the bones with a good dollop of residual meat as well and, once the meat is cooked off the bone in a pressure cooker, it makes a real neat venison pie. | |||
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I've noted that warthogs don't seem to be rolling in fat, much like the wild boars of Europe or the feral hogs we have here in the States. As with our ferals, I'm sure that the much leaner meat has to be treated differently from domestic swine in order for it to retain some reasonable amount of moisture. My son has become quite an accomplished meat smoker and he has had good luck with our feral hog meat. Off subject, but among the antelope, all of which I've had have been outstanding, are there any which tend to be sub-par? I've heard that those which live in swampy conditions may have rather strong smelling meat. | |||
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I've never tried Waterbuck, but I've heard that they can be quite pungent if the meat is allowed to come into contact with the skin. Blue Wildebeest has a strong, sickly-sweet odour and a quite distinctive 'gamey' taste. That's biltong / dry wors meat in my book. One that comes to mind which I didn't particularly enjoy, was a big (Rowland Ward qualifier) Nyala bull. Very coarse-grained meat and quite tough, but that might have had more to do with the animal's age. | |||
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Lean meat cooks up quite nicely but does have to be treated differently - that is if one is accustomed to fatty meat. Me - I cut off any fat from any meat so lean game meat is cooked 'normally' for me.  Regards 303Guy | |||
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Just in case an ignoramus who has never been game to push his loads to the max (because of this or that pressure sign) can add anything to the learned responses above, could a little lateral thinking be any use? Could it be the similar pressure signs in both rifles are merely coincidental? Could the problems be completely different? Could one or both of the rifles have tight dimensions whereby it/they were never contenders to take max loads? I have always assumed the warnings to work loads up had this in mind, not that the eventual possibility of achieving max loads, somehow, should be taken for granted. Has the 8x57JRS barrel been slugged and compared with the bullet diameters? I heard somewhere that some European sporting arms were still made with .318" grooves (at least into the 1930s). Sorry if these thoughts are too stupid or obvious to mention or if I've missed someone else's post that anticipated them. PS: I see now that I posted on the first chapter of this thread and that in the second one Rikkie mentions that .318 grooves are now banned. I guess that ban would predate the 1990s, so there'd be no point slugging the barrel. | |||
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