I recall a number of references on the board noting your preference for the Failsafe bullet over the X bullet. Also, you have refered to bullet failures that you have observed with X bullets. Would you offer a comparison of these bullets and a description of the X bullet problems that you have seen? Of course, observations from anyone else are also appreciated. Thanks.

I ain't Ray, but here's my limited experience. I'm hooked for the tougher game based upon this experience. The PH's were impressed as well. Obtaining good accuracy has been tough with the "X" for me. I have not tried the Failsafe but all that I read and hear is that it is much more likely to shoot accurately than the "X".

http://www.nookhill.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004954

I couldnt disagree more about the accuracy of the "X" bullets.
I cant speak with any authority on the "terminal performance" of the "X", but, the shear accuracy of the "X" is outstanding, as advertised, and my Sako 300WM flat loves 'em!!
That said, I know some folks have had a real time getting them to shoot...but not me.

And Iam talking about 5 shot groups that you could literally "cover with a dime" ..FWIW..sakofan..

[ 08-15-2003, 04:57: Message edited by: sakofan ]

MikeD,

I have found Barnes X bullets to be both accurate and extremey effective on game that I have taken with them.

My opinion is when comparing X's to Failsafes, the Failsafes are a bit "harder" and do not expand as quickly. My experience with these bullets have been in 338 Win Mag and 35 Whelen.

The Barnes X is an excellent all-around bullet. For a couple extremes, I took an impala with the 35W (225 gr 2650fps)at 225 yards through the lungs and the bullet expended well, large exit wound. The ram ran about 75 yards. I then shot an oryx through both sholders at 125 yards, the bullet was on under the skin on the opposite side with 3 of 4 petals intact. The bull dropped in his tracks. I really could not have had a more satisfactory load.

BigBullet

I have tried various weights of X's in two 270's, one 308, one 30-06, one 338-06, two 35 Whelen's and one 375 H&H with accuracy never CONSISTENTLY better than 2-3" at 100 yards. This has been my experience (after a lot of time and $$ spent) and is the basis for my comment above. All of these rifles do much, much better with Nosler Partitions from an accuracy standpoint. In both of my 9.3x62's (an FN and a Husqvarna) accuracy is stellar using the 250 gr X. They both consistently group inside 2" at 200 yards. You just need to try 'em in your rifle and see how it goes. If they group and you hit the animal right it will go down right now based upon the performance I observed in Africa. I have never used a Failsafe therefore can not comment on it though from what I have read I believe they work best at the higher velocities. My hunt in Africa gave the X a large range of impact velocities and critter size to deal with and it performed.

I've found X bullets consistently accurate ONCE YOU FIND THE CORRECT SEATING DEPTH...and it's not alwways crushed up against the lands, either, it's usually right where Barnes says it is- .050 off the lands...

I used to have a few problems making X bullets shoot, but could usually get 1.5"-2" groups...

Just the other day, I worked up 2 160gr X bullet loads for 2 seperate 7mmRM rifles. Mine, a Ruger and my buddies, a Savage. Different powder, different brass, different OAL, same bullet...both loads make sub 1" 5 shot groups.

I guess it's all or nothing with the X bullets

Barnes X seems to need a clean barrel. I loaded and shoot Barnes X 53 grs in my .222Rem, groups slightly less than 1"@100yards. But having shot fifty rounds of Sierra throuhg the barrel without cleaning, the rifle now have horrible patterns with the same BX load: 5-8"@100 yards. Having clean the barrel, I will shoot a group and measure the pattern. I hope it will be the old one inch again.

Fritz

Fritz- what you said summed up my experience with X bullets. I won't call them bad, they just need more "work and care" than other bullets.

Effecient and deadly when used, the Barnes bullet is worth the extra effort. I have only seen one recovered: it was a 140 grain XFB in 270 Winchester. A raking shot taken on an elk at 220-250 yards, it entered behind the floating ribs, and was found in the brisket/neck juncture. The elk was finished off with a shot (.338 250 N.P.)to the neck/shoulder blades. That bullet, fired at about 300-325 yards, wasn't recovered

I still believe the key to X accuracy is to follow the directions, which most people don't do. 1. Start with a clean barrel, not just clean enough, I clean mine and then run wet patches with Butches Bore Shine a few times a day for a 2 days.
2. Get a OAL Comparator and seat the bullets where they say .050 off the lands
Tried the new 180gr Triple Shock in my Model 70 300WSM yesterday and my 1st 5 shots went .8 inches with 63 grains of IMR4350 at 2800 fps. Back today to try 64 grains.

I've only tried Barnes X bullets in one gun, a Tikka Whitetail Hunter in synthetic stock, and I must have gotten very lucky. With either IMR-4350 or RL-22, the 225 gr .338 bullet shoots into a half-inch at 100 yards. I am not sure of the distance from the lands. I will probably use no other bullet in this rifle. Which powder I end up using will be determined by the chronograph. Since accuracy is almost identical, velocity will make the decision for me.

My 270 does not like them all that much, good enough for hunting though groups 1" to 1.5". My 300wsm is a differnt story, it loves the 168gr xlc. Always under 1" but I must admit it took alot of experimenting to find a combination that worked. I love the amount of tissue damage they cause. I'm going to try the triple shocks later as they are cheaper than the xlc and maby they will shoot better in my 270 than the regular x.

I'm not Ray but I'll chime in with my two cents.

From all I've read and heard, the more complicated a bullet is designed the less accurate they will be. Now, the Failsafe has cups and cores and steel inserts and heel closure disks and Lubalox or Moly coating. Phew! That's a lotta stuff going on. Compare to the Barnes X which is a solid copper monolith. Make any sense? Same reasoning the Nosler BT is usually more accurate than the Partition. Less complicated vs. more complicated design.
It's all in the care and feeding; start with a sparkling clean barrel. One last thing. (I wanna get my two cents worth!) As premium bullets go, the X is less expensive than the Failsafe. Working up a load and then practicing often can get pretty pricy.

OK. Ray, it's your turn.

From what I've read and heard, the early runs of Barnes X bullets were inconsistant lot to lot, and sometimes wouldn't consistantly expand. There were cases of the bullets penciling through with no expansion, and other times where they would bend like a banana and not penetrate straight.

I've only fired a few X bullets, not enough to form a conclusion yet. One thing to consider is that they are longer then conventioanal bullets for the same weight, and they also penetrate more deeply then the same weight conventional bullet.

So, unless you're hunting thick skinned game, you might be best off dropping down one or two bullet weights when using the X's.

I had trouble with the 50VLC in my 223. Nothing better than 1". I emailed Barnes and they told me that they test all their bullets for accuracy with Benchmark. I loaded up several different powder charges of Benchmark with the bullet set at .050 off the lands. The first group of 24.5grns shot .192 group @100 yards. Good enough for me, H.H.

I've got a 3/4" load for my 25/06 using 100gr XLC BT seated .050 off the lands. Couldnt get anything even close with the same bullet non coated.

I have 3 boxes of 140gr XFB, 2 boxes of 160gr. XLC FB in 7mm on the way. I'll judge them better after trying them in the 4 7mm's I'm loading for.

I have yet to hunt with them yet so I'll see this season, I hope.

Boilerroom, my experiences with the Barnes' has been the total opposite of yours.Mine shoot the Uncoated ones well but would not hit a dog in the ass at 50 paces with the XLC's. Funny how things are different for other people,huh?

Try the new Triple Shock Barnes X.... They really have been shooting great for me.