I shoot a .223, .270 and .375H&H. I have fallen into a habit of going through the rigorous and intoxicating task of cleaning the barrels with Robla Solo (Ammonia copper fouling remover) after each stint at the range. I justify this with the fact that the patches come out blue on all these rifles every time. I steer clear from monolithic solids as far as possible, but only shoot moly's in the .223.

Does a barrel foul with copper even after 1 shot? Is it essential to do this to retain accuracy? Opinions differ and I've read that it's adequate to use ammonia only maybe once a season/year.

Does Hoppes #9 also remove copper, or only powder residue and softer gunk?

Is there any value in soaking the barrel with Hoppes #9 directly after shooting (warm barrel) or can I do this at home?

What would be the most effective procedure for cleaning (incl copper removal, if necessary every time) when coming home? My wife begs me to take up golf again - motivation being that then I was away for only 4 hours. Now it's 4 hours at the range, 2 hours on the patio surrounded with chemicals (with grin of absolute gratification) and evenings in the reloading room!

Opinions also differ on the use of Teflon-based lubricants in barrels. What is your views on this?

Apologies - these are a lot of questions. But maybe of substantial benefit for newcomers like me?

Here is a simple 'solutuion'

http://www.mp7.com/

Karoo - Scrubbing a bore is never a good idea. Using improper tools and solvents is the quickest path to re-barreling.

Considering your location, some copper solvents will be difficult for you to locate. In any event, you should start with a one piece cleaning rod - coated preferred. You should always use a bore guide to keep the rod off the bore. Use nylon and bronze bore brushes and plenty of cotton patches.

Hoppe�s is great for removing powder fouling. It does nothing for copper fouling. As you described, you need an ammonia based solvent to pull copper from your bore. Aggressive solvents like Sweets and CR-10 work quickly, solvents like Butch�s Bore Shine work slower but can be left in the bore for extended hours (not something you should do with Sweets).

At the range, a few patches of Hoppe�s or Butch�s will help get things started. By the time you arrive at the house, powder fouling will come out quickly. Make sure you keep your muzzle down, you don�t want solvent in the magazine or action. Once the majority of the powder fouling is removed, time to use a copper solvent. Follow the directions and do not mix solvents in the bore. Fully patch out the previous solvent before moving on to the next.

If you have a choice, I would suggest a very strong solvent vs scrubbing your bore with a brush for hours on end. Let the solvents work as directed, don�t get into too much of a hurry. ALWAYS finish with a quality gun oil for storage. Teflon based oils are OK, but run a patch or two of Hoppe�s through the bore before shooting. You do not want to burn Teflon in your bore.

What solvents do you have access to in RSA?

Karoo--

It depends entirely on the barrel. I shoot almost all custom barrels and my cleaning regime is to pull a Boresnake through every 50 rounds or so. The copper cleaners are used *maybe* once a year after several hundred to a couple thousand rounds.

I use a cleaning rod just like it was a rat-tail file.....as little and as carefully as possible.

Robla Solo is as powerful a copper solvent as Sweets -the smell is stronger though- and both shouldn't stay in the bore for more than 15'. On the other hand, They're pretty effective on their own and you don't need a brush. A few cycles may be necessary but all copper will ultimately be removed. When done, dry out the bore and oil to neutralize remaining ammonia.

"I use a cleaning rod just like it was a rat-tail file.....as little and as carefully as possible."



I agree with Mr. Belk... (He's a worldclass gunsmith, for any of you who didn't know.)

It is my opinion that more people clean barrels to death than shoot them to death.

Let me tell you about a certain .243 I have... My dad aquired this old 1937 set trigger Mannlicher-Schoenauer in 1960. It was originally an 8 x 60 Magnum (whatever that was)... Yeah, it would have been worth more had he left it alone, but he wanted a .243!

The rifle was sent to a gunsmith in North Carolina (never found out exactly who it was) where it was fitted with a new custom barrel which was perfectly turned to match the original barrel's contour. The magazine was modified to accomodate .243 cartridges, and there was a Griffin & Howe side mount installed to hold a Weaver K6 scope.

This rifle rode in the back window of my dad's old Bronco pickup (yes, there was such a thing as a Bronco pickup) for years. I don't know how many rounds of .243 went through that bore over the years, but between Dad, my uncle, my two brothers, and now me--the round count is at least double the 2000 rounds that most folks claim is the "life of a .243 barrel."

I cleaned one helluva lot of copper out of this rifle when it came into my possesion. There was a substantial amount of build up of fouling in the first couple of inches ahead of the throat. Dad rarely cleaned this rifle, and it had actually been sitting behind a pie safe in the kitchen at my aunt's house, uncleaned or oiled for two years when I finally took ownership.

But when all of the fouling was removed, the bore was as good as you'd ever want to see. Now perhaps a bore scope would find flaws--they generally do. But, for all practical purposes this rifle has a perfect bore in spite of the round count, and in spite of rarely being cleaned over many, many years.

And by the way, it will shoot 1/2 to 3/4 MOA at will, using 46 grains of IMR 4831 behind Sierra's 85 grain BTHP's.

Don't get me wrong here! I don't advocate leaving your rifle bores dirty. I just wanted to mention the above as testament to the fact that some people get way too anal about getting that last bit of fouling out of the bore, and in so doing, damage the barrel moreso than preserve it.

I clean with Hoppes number 9 after each outing, whether the rifle is fired or not it gets a wet patch of Hoppes through the bore--and to answer the question as to whether Hoppes number 9 removes copper: Yes, it very gently removes copper if allowed to soak in the bore. I put my rifles away with Hoppes number 9 in the bore, and normally swab the bore before firing them. I always find some green on the dry patch-- copper gently removed by the number 9. If you've got a lot of copper, use Sweet's per instructions, but as a rule, the Hoppes number 9 will take off all the high spots...

And always remember, the normal condition of a rifle barrel is fouled. If your rifle won't shoot well fouled, it is a one shot rifle...

Dan

Jack, you're telling only half the story. I know that you are a huge proponent for bore snakes and I agree they have their place. However, if I remember correctly, you mostly shoot moly bullets. Shooting moly bullets has its advantages by greatly reducing/eliminating copper fouling. However, for those folks who shoot copper jacketed bullets, it take a lot more than simply pulling a bore snake through the bore every 50 rounds or so.

I have used a bore snake for many years in my .22 rim fires. A little Hoppe�s, a few tugs and everything is shipshape. But throw a copper solvent into the cleaning routine and goodby one bore snake. Unfortunately, a bore snake will not last long using Sweets or other aggressive copper solvents. I agree that bore snakes are fine for cleaning moly burnished bores, but they just don't hold up well to the solvents it takes to remove copper fouling.

Looks like this should turn into another Wipeout thread!

Never clean a Moly-seasoned barrel with anything other than the equivalent of Kroil and JB compound.

Perhaps I'm the odd one out here (likely it'll not be the last time either).

At any rate, I've been using a Otis cleaning system http://www.otisgun.com and any number of solvents, such as Hopes, RB-17, Ed's Red, Ed's Modified Red (add Kroil instead of ATF) Military Surplus "Bore Cleaner" and a shelf full of others I don't remember the names of at this moment.

The long and short of it being that I prefer the Otis "flexible rods" to any others I've ever seen/tried, BoreSnake included! The way the Otis system works (IMHO) your barrel will be cleaned with only a modicum of effort, further, any copper solvent/cleaner seems to work and work well. As to lead I've found this method to be the most inexpensive, the best and the easiest.
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Just my 2 cents worth,

Zero Drift~
You are one sharp dude!

Thanks Bob, but I think it's just the new suit and shoes.

He must have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express Last night.