I just bought some of these and have a new 30.06 to try them in. I have never used them before. Is there anything I should be aware of? I have H414, H4831SC, Retumbo, and Reloader 22. I was planning on using H414 and H4831sc? Where can I find load data for this. Thanks.

You might try Barnes' website.
Just a note, your powder choices seem a little slow to me. I generally use something in the 4320,4350,4895 burn rate range for bullets lighter than 180's in the -06. YMMV.

Thanks Blacktailer, I think I'm going to switch over to a different bullet after I shoot these up. I bought 100 of them but load data is not much around and I heard I can't use similar data for these bullets. I checked their website and they only had two powders they used one being 4350. I guess I will have to buy some? I used H4350 in my last 06 and didn't have much success I changed to H414 and it was slow, but it was deadly and accurate. I shoot a 165 at 2680 out of the 06 but get 5 shot groups under a inch at 100. I know 308 winchester loads that go faster but accuracy first for me. Thanks for the suggestions.

414 is one of the best powders for the 30.06.

Not sure why you want to change bullets though. The 168 Barnes is my favorite go-to bullet in my 30.06. I use H4350 with the TSX and Re19 with the TTSX. And frankly IMR4064 is a top choice as well and continues to produce extremely accurate loads for me and a couple of friends who all shoot the 30.06.

I like the TSX and TTSX in 168 so much I have 250 rounds each loaded with the respective powder mentioned and I'm set for life. I'll never shoot them all but man they are accurate and they hammer any animal I've hunted with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Esox357:
I just bought some of these and have a new 30.06 to try them in. I have never used them before. Is there anything I should be aware of? I have H414, H4831SC, Retumbo, and Reloader 22. I was planning on using H414 and H4831sc? Where can I find load data for this. Thanks.

Try Hodgdon powder reloading data website. It has everything you need. You can start with their min charge of powder in the same wt bullet even if the bullet is different.

I use H4350 with the 168gr TTSX in my 06. H414 should be a good choice too. I checked the Barnes site load data, and it didn't help much, except IMR4064 is a good powder choice.

In developing my load, I just used the published data on Hodgdon's web site. Although they don't show specifically the TTSX, I used the starting data anyway, for whatever 165-168gr bullet they show, and worked up as normal. As I recall, I only increased from the starting data a couple of grains, and stopped because accuracy was so good right there.

I'm thinking that with 100 bullets you should be able to find an excellent load, and once you do that, I'm pretty sure you will find those 168gr TTSX bullets to be excellent in all respects, and you'll want to keep using them.

KB

You can also rely on Steve's Reloading Pages for starters:

Here's his data for 165/168 bullets in the .06:

Steve's info for 30.06

Thanks Doc and Kabluewy, I was told I couldn't interchange the data but I will give it a try. I appreciate it, you both have been very helpful. I believe the TTSX are great bullets but was discouraged by the load data I saw on the Barnes website for pete sakes they make the bullets so I thought they would have more definitive load information. I will use the hodgons website and start with H414 since I have a bunch on hand then may pick up some H4350. Thanks again.

There are a couple of reasons out of many that I really like the Barnes bullets:

1. They, for the most part, really like to be driven fast, so max loads in your rifle may be what is most accurate, or near max anyway.

2. They are accurate. Very accurate in all of my rifles.

I don't know your procedure on load development, but for starters, pick your components: primer, brass, bullet, powder. Choose ONE seating depth-I like to start .030 with Barnes. I typically start loading about 2 grains over whatever minimum published data starts with. That's me and it's just what I do.

Increase powder charge in half grain increments until you are at published max loads from whatever reference you choose. Then load in .3 grain increments from there til you get about 2 grains over published max load.

Go to range and start with low loads and shoot, working your way up until you get some pressure signs (if this even occurs) telling you that max or near max has been achieved.

Load 3 more of the top charged load and confirm it is near max in your rifle (like sticky bolt lift). Back off .3 grains for the next 3 and make sure they are ok. Keep in mind, as with any powder, there is a chance it could be too "hot" of a load if tested in winter and shot when warmer.

Once you find max load with the components you choose, start playing with seating depth of bullet and find what shoots best. You can increase pressures by seating depth alone so keep that in mind as well.

I've got rifles that I've had 3 grains over max published data and still safe with no signs of pressure. I usually always reference 2 sources: the powder company and the bullet company.

Here's something to think about. Not that Doc is wrong, or anything like that.

Maybe I've gotten a bit lazy, and often I don't do some of the thing Doc suggests. But there are other reasons too.

For example, with the Barnes TTSX 168gr, I used starting published load, and worked up, simply because the load listed wasn't for the TTSX, but a lead core bullet. Also when working up, with a case with as large capacity as a 30-06, I increase the charge one grain at a time, and write the charge on the brass with a sharpie.

I don't always look for max load, just sometimes. It depends entirely if I find an outstandingly accurate load, and haven't noticed any signs of approching max yet. That's what happened when I was testing the 168gr TTSX. I got to 57grs H4350 and just stopped. The accuracy was so good that I know I just can't shoot better than that with that rifle. Think clover leafs - small clover leafs.

In this situation, I could see no reason to know the exact charge, at the temperature of that day, that I considered max - sticky bolt lift etc. It's a moot issue. The important thing is it's accurate, and giving plenty of velocity.

On other rifles and loads, yes, I have intentionally worked up to max loads, then backed off a bit, however I do it different than Doc. When I get sticky bolt lift, I might - just maybe - shoot another of the same load, depends on how sticky the first one was. One more usually confirms what I'm looking for. Usually I have at least five rounds with that over max loads, so I pull the other three, and salvage the powder and bullet. My reduction from the sticky load is no less than a full grain, in the 06 or similar size case. Mostly it's two grains. That sorta depends, because then I start messing with loads in 1/2 gr increments looking for the most accurate. That could be 1 gr under max or 2. This is also the time to be messing with seating depth, but sometimes it's not even necessary, assuming that the bullet isn't cramned into the lands, or exceeding the magazine length, and the bolt closes easily.

Regarding seating depth with a new unfamiliar rifle: I get the batch of brass all ready to load, and make sure it will chamber and allow the bolt to close easily. Then, I'll seat a bullet or two into empty brass. Seated intentionally long at first, then try chambering, and keep seating deeper untill the bolt will close easily. Then I turn the stem down a little more to back the bullet off the lands. After setting the die, I'll usually keep at least one dummy round to use to set the die again later, because I seldom lock the die ring down, since I load same cartridge, different rifles, or different bullets, so I'm always resetting the seating depth stem, and the sizing die too, each batch. The only cartridges I crimp are the 375 and 458.

On some chambers/throats, it's possible to seat the bullet so far out that magazine length becomes an issue. In that case I just seat to std OAL or maybe a little longer, but no longer than the base of the bullet even with the base of the neck. Normal OAL per book is a good starting place, and usually the ending place too.

Again, it's ok to be lazy or efficient. If you find a real accurate load with no excess presure signs that's 2 grs under book max, it's ok to just stop load development, and load up a batch, and go hunting.

KB

Thanks Doc,

I have 100 pcs of new Winchester brass, Winchester Large Primers, and will start with H414. I will full length size the cases and trim and debur the mouth and primer pockets. I will most likely seat at 3.230 to start according to specs. I will have to figure out the length to the lands for this rifle. I usually start at minimum published load, and load three in .5 increments to max load. If I find any promising I load up 5 or 10 and play with seating depth to see if any improvements. After that I finalize the load one more time and load up 200.

Thanks both again. My search is for accuracy first and velocity second. Its nice when both come together but I have often found it doesn't work that way quite often. I have a "slow" 30.06 shooting 165 BTSP with H414 at 2680fps. It is plenty deadly and plenty accurate. I tried H4350 and IMR 4350 the gun didn't like it, tried H4895 with 180's no luck either sure some were 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 groups but I felt it could be better. I can fire 5 shots around a inch at 100 consistently. I love consistency. Thanks again both of you. I will post back on the results.

FWIW, I also have very accurate loads in the .06 with Varget and Re19.

If you have the itch to buy more powders, try 4064 as well! I buy it by the 8 pound jug since I use it in several 30.06s and a 308. Just another go-to powder that always seems to work and work well.

Well noted, I currently have H414, H4831SC, Reloader 22, Retumbo, and Varget.

quote:

Originally posted by Esox357:
Well noted, I currently have H414, H4831SC, Reloader 22, Retumbo, and Varget.

My favorite 168g TTSX 30-06 load is, F215,50g Varget, 3.340 oal. makes 2850fps in my bbl.
Have a good one!!

Have not tried Varget myself but am fond of IMR4064 & 4350, RL19 was great in mine. Quicker powders will help with the 165gr and seat them back a little bit more than you'd think. Barnes usually recommends being about .050" from the lands for starters. Nate

Probably whoever told you you couldn't interchange load data with Barnes bullets was thinking about the old X bullet. Once Barnes went with the TSX design with the grooves, the excess pressure problems disappeared (and I think accuracy improved). As always, back off on the powder charge when you change any component and work back up but you should have no problem using other manufacturer's load data for 165-168gr bullets.
PS If you blow yourself up, I didn't say this and AR is not responsible

Barnes manual #4.
H414
Starting load 51 gr.
Max load 55 gr.

The TSX and TTSX seem to like to be loaded a long way from the lands. Suggest trying the Barnes recommended seating depth and adjust from there.

Thanks all again for chiming in! Good stuff all the way around. I will post results when I get to the range. Got all the brass prepped and waiting on the bullets to arrive should be here in a couple of days. Then next get my scope mounted. Excited to see what this ADL will do.

quote:

Originally posted by Esox357:
Thanks all again for chiming in! Good stuff all the way around. I will post results when I get to the range. Got all the brass prepped and waiting on the bullets to arrive should be here in a couple of days. Then next get my scope mounted. Excited to see what this ADL will do.

Have you fired any bullets through it yet? If not Barnes recommends NOT shooting their bullets through a new bore first. Or, at least that was their recommendation.

I have not. Still waiting to mount the scope. I loaded up some cases this evening. I started with 52.0 grains of H414 to 55.0 grains. COAL 3.218 according to Barnes website. Did they reference how many rounds a new barrel should have prior to using their bullets? Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Esox357:
I have not. Still waiting to mount the scope. I loaded up some cases this evening. I started with 52.0 grains of H414 to 55.0 grains. COAL 3.218 according to Barnes website. Did they reference how many rounds a new barrel should have prior to using their bullets? Thanks.

I don't recall but their point was to "season" or break-in a new barrel prior to shooting their bullets since the Barnes slugs are all solid copper. You risk high fouling on a newly tooled tube if you don't smooth out the barrel.

Personally with the rifles I have dedicated for Barnes bullets, I would buy a cheapo box of factory ammo that had the brass I wanted and I'd shoot & clean for the 1st 5. Then shoot three more 5 shot groups cleaning after every 5. Clean thoroughly. Then try your TTSX loads.

Thanks again Doc, I will do a barrel break in and post back my results with the Barnes.

quote:

Originally posted by Esox357:
Thanks Doc and Kabluewy, I was told I couldn't interchange the data but I will give it a try.

I've heard the same but wanted to load some 265 grain LRX bullets in my 338-378 Wby. I emailed Barnes and they told me to use the 275 grain data from the Hodgdon reloading center. It's worked well so far. Email them and state your information, they'll have an answer for you I'm sure.

Ken....