I honestly thought this would never happen!

I actually have a question...

I spent 5 hours today in the nice 101-degree Montana sun (without shade) trying to find a .22-250 load using Sierra 52 grain HPBT bullets, Remington brass, Winchester WLR primers, and ... VARGET!

I have always used H-380, and have had fantastic results, but decided to give the Varget a test...it failed miserably!

I loaded from 30.7 grains to 36.0 grains in 0.3 grain steps. Five loads for "record" and one "fouler".

I waited 5 minutes between each shot, and 15 minutes between each 5-shot group. I did a light cleaning between each group and started each group with a dry barrel and a fouling shot.

I have NEVER seen such miserable results in my life from a .22-250!

Looking at 3 different reloading manuals, I should have gotten 3740 fps with the 36.0 grain load (I am happy with anything over 3700 in a .22-250) but in reality the best it could cough up was 3575...and the 5-shot group was 2.328" at 100-yards!!!

Have any of you had any luck with Varget in the .22-250 and the Sierra 52 HPBT bullet? If so...please feed me!

[ 07-15-2002, 02:14: Message edited by: ricciardelli ]

I tried Varget in a Ruger M11 22-250 seated at 2.337". 50gr vmax and 52 gr sierra match new win brass and br-2 primers and so far I havent found any thing that I will shoot.

went back to H-414 39 gr. 52gr. sierra and shot one group at around .375", 100 yds. loaded 20 more to try tomorrow.
also tried 50 gr moly v-max with the varget and I could shoot better groups with my shotgun.
Dave

This isn't responsive to your inquiry, but I've had great luck with Varget and the 50g Speer TNT's. Groups in the 4's at 3770fps, and we both know the TNT is nowhere near the accuracy bullet as the Sierra. May try the Sierras in mine just to see.

I just finished compiling the data from today's effort...does it stink!

Steve's Reloading Work Sheet
(Page 1)
Caliber : .22-250 Remington Date : 14-Jul-02
Firearm : Ruger 77R Case OAL: 1.905"
Case : Remington Cart. OAL: 2.393"
Bullet : Sierra 52 HPBT Temp : 77 to 101 F
Primer : Winchester WLR Wind : 3 to 15 mph
Powder : Varget Range : 100 Yards

Manual Lo Chg Lo Vel Hi Chg Hi Vel My Chg Est Vel

Hodgdon. 34.0 3630 ....36.0 3784 ....36.0 ..3784
Hornady.. 30.7 3200 ....35.7 3700 ....36.0 ..3731
Speer..... 32.0 3338 ....36.0 3706 ....36.0 ..3706

AVG EST 3740
CHRONY 3575

Powder Varget

First Firing
GRAINS VEL GROUP GRAINS VEL GROUP
30.7 ...2957 0.685 ....33.5 3316 2.184
31.0 ...3024 1.022 ....33.8 3361 1.701
31.3 ...3091 1.626 ....34.0 3373 1.801
31.5 ...3128 0.990 ....34.3 3408 1.610
31.8 ...3139 1.483 ....34.6 3447 2.174
32.1 ...3178 0.853 ....34.9 3458 2.128
32.4 ...3205 0.743 ....35.2 3503 2.188
32.7 ...3247 0.856 ....35.4 3527 1.608
32.9 ...3249 1.634 ....35.7 3551 1.609
33.2 ...3302 1.498 ....36.0 3575 2.328

I just finished a close examination of the cases from those disasterous loads.

I used a high-power jeweler's loop and a halogen desk lamp. Guess what I found...

All the cases loaded from 30.7 grains of Varget to 33.2 grains had protruding primers. From 33.5 to 36.0 grains the primers were even with the case head.

All cases from 30.7 grains to 32.9 grains had NO burnishing on the case from the chamber. Loads between 33.2 grains to 33.8 grains had slight, patchy burnishing. Cases from 34.0 grains to 36.0 grains had even burnishing over the entire case.

All cases from 30.7 grains to 35.2 grains had a sign of gas bypass along the neck and shoulder. Cases from 35.4 to 36.0 had none.

All cases had identical inside and outside neck diameters, and all cases had identical OAL.

No cases showed any signs of excessive pressure, not even the 36.0 grain load which is listed as "maximum" by both Hodgdon and Speer, and 0.3 grains over "maximum" in Hornady!

My next plan of attack is to load 5 each of the following weights of Varget behind the Sierra 52 HPBT and see what happens.
35.4
35.7
36.0
36.4
36.8
37.3
37.7
38.1
38.6
39.0

According to my calculations (using the data in the manuals), the 39 grain load should clock at 4052 fps, the 38 grain load should clock at 3948, the 37 grain load at 3844, and the 36 grain load as stated in the manuals should clock at 3740.

And that is where the manuals are FOS...since they actually clocked at 3575!

I've had the same problem with VarGet and 52 gr. bullets. I've tried Berger 52 grainers, Sierra 52 grainers and for some reason, no matter how much I play with seating depth, and charge weight, I cannot get either of my .22-250's to group with VarGet and a 52 gr. bullet. My rifles are a Cooper 22 and a Weatherby SVM and both love VarGet and 40 gr. V-Max (Moly). A good shooting friend has a Kimber that shoots bugholes with H-380 and 52 gr. Sierras but he too had the same problem when he tried to match VarGet with his Sierras.

Just inquiring, why varget? Temperature stability, accuracy or both?

I have only had moderate luck with the accuracy of varget in my 22-250's. I have had wonderful results with H4895 34-35.5 gr with 52-55 gr bullets. Varget does seem to be primer sensitive in regards to accuracy.

I tried Varget in a Win70 varmint in 22-250. The results were poor. I've been using IMR4064 and H380 as of late. Another thing that I noticed with the Varget, the barrel seemed to heat up very quickly and I wasn't running the rounds out rapid fire. I haven't tried it in anything else.

Well, I know not to try that combination now! No sense in re-inventing the wheel, huh?

I use VarGet alot in .308 match loads where it works just fine. Several friends use it in .223 heavy bullet loads and are seemingly happy with it.

The benefit of VarGet in my use is small velocity variance which really begin to matter at ranges past 600 yards. I'll take a slightly larger round group over one that gives me vertical stringing every time!

Thanks for the heads-up, guys!

Redial

In my 24" heavy sporter-weight bbl. I get 3,720 fps with a 55 gr. V-Max on top of 36.5 gr's Varget and Fed 210M primers... all go right at .5" and pressures are fine *warning* in my particular rifle. I like Varget here in MT as it's "temperature stable" for -10F coyote hunting in February or +90F August shooting.

Brad

oops... you're right Bob... I fixed it.

[ 07-21-2002, 22:25: Message edited by: Brad ]

Brad, I'll bet you have a typo and mean 3,720 fps.

Doesn't Varget have a very high NG content? That would in part explain the more rapid barrel heating.

I'm kinda new at this, this is actually my first gun and my first experience at loading.
I've only used two powders to this point and you guys have identified exactly what
I experienced this week. I thought it might be the extreme outdoor heat that was
contributing my barrel to warm up so fast but now that you mention it was the powder.
Over the last couple of trips out to the range I was loading with 4064; this week I had my first
batch of Varget

After 3 shots from my 12FVSS .308 42gr Varget I had to wait a good 1/2 hour to get the barrel back to
ambient temperature.

[ 07-22-2002, 20:03: Message edited by: kromer ]

Steve -

Have you tried CCI Benchrest primers? green 788 noted he'd gotten best results using CCI BR's any time he used Varget in his rifles, and, in checking my load notes for my two "match quality" (they're match quality, I'm not!!) rifles in 223 and 308, darned if he wasn't right. Varget/CCI BR, goes together like mashed potatoes/gravy; hog jowls/chitlins; string bikinis/eyestrain; liberals/lies, etc..

Might be worth a try.

R-WEST

Nope, I haven't tried the CCI BR primers. The initial firing was with Winchester WLR.

I have a second batch made-up using Varget, but in much heavier loads, and I used the WLR primers in them also.

My intent was to fire this second batch and if any showed any promise at all, to start switching primers...I was going to use Remingon, Federal and CCI for comparison testing. If they showed any promise, then I was going to select the tprimer that seemed "best" and start from scratch again!

My other course is to forget Varget and go back to H-380...

Steve -

quote:

---

My other course is to forget Varget and go back to H-380...

---

I think you may have something there. It's really hard to beat H380 in the 22-250.

I played around some with my brother's 700 VSSF in 22-250, and, if memory serves, Varget really never did anything outstanding. H4895 and AA4064 worked best with 52/53 grainers, and H380 was its normal outstanding self with 55's.

You've obviously noticed the load data variables that we seem to fight all the time. The load of H380 that worked best in my 22-250 is about 2.5 grains over the listed max in most manuals. Strange.

R-WEST

Steve I'm fairly new to H380, but I am finding it to be very versatile. Easy to work with too.

Well, I finished loading my second batch of Varget yesterday, starting at 35.4 grains and going to 39.0 grains in 0.3 grain steps.

I am also loading some H-380, going from 37.0 grains to 42.0 grains in 0.3 grain steps.

As soon as we get a day when the temperature is under 90 degrees and the winds are less than hurricane strength, I will be at the range!

I really don't expect to see much improvement with the Varget, but I refuse to toss it aside because of one set of firing data!

I do expect to see H-380 give it's usual excellent performance, however.

[ 07-24-2002, 00:46: Message edited by: ricciardelli ]

R-WEST and green 788 are right Steve. I did get my best accuracy w/ VarGet when I switched to CCI BR 2 primers. I'm sure you probably have some on hand, give them a try if you decide to keep trying that VarGet. Once you find the right combination, I think you will be pleased. Good Luck. By the way, thats some group @ 200 yds.

I shoot a Ruger 77V in .22-250 Remington and have had excellent results with both H-380 and H4895.

I have not been able to get Varget to shoot worth a damn in that rifle no matter how many different combinations I tried. It is just not worth the effort to find that magic Varget load that works in this rifle.

With H-380 and H4895 it is just the opposite. I have to work hard to find a load that will not shoot.

I am using H-380 in one of my Ruger 77V's and H-414 in another. They work great...

Steve...

VERY INTERESTING THREAD!! Thanks for bringing up the topic!

I have switched all my .308 match, and Tactical/Sniper match rifles over to Varget, as I'm sure many others have done. It seems like God's gift to the .308 class of rifles. And I love the temperature stability!

I have a 40-XB that is one of my PD/Woodchuck rifles, that i haven't shot for many years, and recently dug it out.

My load (like many other's) was 38.x of H-380 and a 55gr softpoint. the gun shot almost anything into around .20" to .30".

I dug it out a few weeks ago, and pulled all the ammo, because there are much better bullets around now (Blitzkings, and V-Maxs), and I thought I'd try Varget with them...

It was so bad that I was thinking yesterday of getting it rebarreled, cuz groups were awful, and nothing shot even close to an 1"

This thread is damn good timing. I'll try H-4895, and H-380 again.

Thanks for the data.

CatShooter.

My preferences,for all cartridge thus far mentioned,is Re-15,Re-15 and Re-15,in about that order.

Varget showed me nothing................