my problem being is I have .156 "jump" on a short 32 gn V-Max bullet is it uncommon to see that much jump?
Another Problem is my best shooting bullet is a Sierra 32gn BlitzKing, which is about .20 shorter than the V-Max. So what I did is split the difference seated the bullet up .75 doing this, It did nothing for accuracy.(in either bullet)
Should I keep trying to rase the bullet until it is barely seated or figure moving it that much didn't do anything so leave it alone?

One more thing the 32gn BlitzKing (the best shooter)is .20 shorter
SOOO when i was shooting it would have had that much more jump around .180 is that to much?
will it cause throat errosion faster?

It is not the tip of the bullet that you should be measuring, but rather the point where the ogive reaches maximum diameter.

Ricciardelli,
I should have mentioned thay what I did to get my .156 "jump" measurment with the tip of the bullet is took my COL: of 2.250" chambered that round,then ran a dowle down the barrel to the tip of the bullet made a mark, then took just a bullet and let it fall through the chamber to the lands then took another measurement, the difference between the two is .156 what do you think?
The bullet is stopping where the Ogive reaches the lands is this a good way to measure bullet jump?

The Sinclair catalog has a tool for measuring the distance of bullet to lands. It measures from where the bullet will contact the lands, not from bullet tip.

Brent you're getting a good reading of the jump. Different guns like different bullets and different distances to the lands. I have a 308 that has over .300 jump to the lands and it shoots <MOA all day. Weatherby always had large amounts of freebore and some of them shot well also.

Todays rifles are pitiful regarding chamber length. It's not uncommon to have one that will not reach the lands with any bullet. Having said that we can take some small measure of comfort in knowing that not all rifles shoot best with the bullets touching the lands. Some actually prefer a jump to get there. Some of your lengths will vary due to actual diferences in the bullet itself. This is no problem because you're only measuring to the ogive. The front of the bullet doesn't touch anything anyway. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Cal has a point, what diff. does the measurement make if the load/bullet shoots well? My .260ai is throated for the 142grSMK. The little 85grhp is way off the lands & several of my loads, w/ that bullet off the lands, shoot into the .3s. To much thought is going into that. Load some up, shoot them & see what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by Brent Duvall:
Ricciardelli,
I should have mentioned thay what I did to get my .156 "jump" measurment with the tip of the bullet is took my COL: of 2.250" chambered that round,then ran a dowle down the barrel to the tip of the bullet made a mark, then took just a bullet and let it fall through the chamber to the lands then took another measurement, the difference between the two is .156 what do you think?
The bullet is stopping where the Ogive reaches the lands is this a good way to measure bullet jump?

Your method of determining the actual OCL for a Bullet is the same one I've used for 5 decades and it always works. Much better than some of the gizmos which will lie to you.

Your concern over bullet jump to reach the Lands, might or might not prove to be valid. One of my 35cal rifles really likes a bullet that is Seated 0.268" Off-the-Lands. It just stacks them in atop each other and you can fit a 1" square "around" the entire group without it touching.

The way I'd recommend approaching it is to Seat the bullet out as far as you feel comfortable and load 3 at that distance. Then work back into the case in 0.005" increments of 3-shots and see if you can locate a sweet spot. If you can't, switch to a different bullet. You can't always get a rifle to fire a bullet well just because it is a bullet you want to use.

Best of luck to you.

Thanx for the replies,
I guess it shouldn't matter how far the bullet jump is, I just find myself being picky on every little detail, hell this .204 worst group in the wind has been around 1.5 inches at 100 yds. I just like stacking bullets around .5 inches, LOL dont we all.

Hot Core I am going to try your method of working back in 0.005" increments of 3 shot groups. I just have 3 different bullets, and 4 different powders and undecided on a load.
If the damn wind would quit blowing around here for a few minutes It would be nice, hell when I bought the gun I was shooting .5 groups

Hey Brent, There is an old reloading trick you might be interested in about the Seating. First off take a bullet from the box and call it the Set-Up bullet. Do the measurement jsut as you mentioned to find the distance where it just Kisses-the-Lands and call that the OCL.

Put an empty properly trimmed case in the press shell holder and raise the ram with no die in the press. Screw the Seating Stem up to the top of the Seating Die. Screw the Seating Die into the press until it touches the empty case, back it out 1/2 turn and set the Die Body Lock Ring. Now you can remove and replace the Seating Die to the exact same distance.

Take the Set-Up bullet and Seat it to the previous OCL.

Now. here is the trick. Snug up the Jam Nut on the Seating Stem and then remove the Seating Die from the press. Measure from the top of the Seating Stem to the mouth of the Die with a 0.001" capable caliper. Let's say that is x.x25" Overall Seating Die Length (OSDL) and record that on the bullet box.

Now if you want a bullet Seated 0.010" Off-the-Lands, you pre-set the OSDL to x.x15", screw it in the press and you are ready to go. DO NOT re-measure the OCL at this point or it will mislead you due to the variation in the individual bullets from the Ogive to the Tip.

You can use the x.x25" OSDL for this entire box. Each time you open a new box of bullets, re-do this and record the OSDL on the box. It will sure make Seating different depths much easier for you.

There are a lot of free chamber in a lot of rifles that shoot very accruate. And some lower weight bullets in some calibers will always have to jump an long way to the rifling because of thier size. We have become so geared toward some norm of .005, .003 etc. from the rifling that when we get a bullet that won't seat at that so called norm we think we have a screwed up rifle or something. I had to seat (as most with mags)the 180 grain Sierra pro hunter bullet so it would work well in the chamber and it had a .085 distance to the rifling. It constantly shoots 1/2 groups and a few smaller. I tried to chamber a 150 grain bullet against the rifling in a dummy load and the bullet wouldn't stay in the case as it only seated very litle. In order to use the 150 even when seating for use in the mag, it would have to travel much father than the 180 does. The only way I could use the 180 seated to .005 from the rifling is not to use the mag and chamber each one without using it. It seats well there but had to be seated another .075 for the mag. Since I was working up a long distance hunting round I seated the bullets .085 and they worked real well. And yes most Weatherbys are with a lot of free chamber and shoot well. Go with what ever you got and do the best you can but don't panic just because someone has said .005 or what ever is what it must be. I had a 30/06 that someone fired on of those inserts in that let it shoot .308 and that increased the distance to the rifling but it shot better than before. Depends on what the rifle likes!

Ricciardelle and 500 grains have it down. The tool is a overall length gauge and a bullet comparator from stoney point products.I lost my dummy cartridge and had to start over like you are. I took a fired case and tapped the neck, inserted a bullet and pushed it in my chamber, the bullet slid back into the case when it reached the lands,presto,OAL.But the OAL gauge and bullet comparator which measures to the ogive made things a whole lot easier. Especially when you are switching bullet types.It measures to the ogive and makes switching bullets a whole lot easier and you dont have to fire so many rounds off searching for the right length. Good luck whatever you do, your way is probalbly cheaper on the wallet.

Eraser,

Since you have drilled and tapped a case for the Stoney Point device, why don't you share the tap and drill specs with us so the rest of us can easily make our own threaded cases?

Old Elk Hunter, mistake on my part. I did not drill and tap anything. what I did was tap the neck of the case with a pair of pliers, crimped it a bit, then stuck a bullet in there so it would slide back and forth a little bit.insert into chamber and it slides back when bullet hits ogive. Work backwords on oal from there. It took quite a while to find sweet spot.Then I went and bought the stoney point oal gauge and bullet comparator to make things easier, I hoped. It works pretty good and makes finding the ogive more scientific? but you still have to find that sweet spot. I will get the specs for you though I cant get info till Monday. I know its a #8 metric stud, with 70,72 threads per inch but dont know about taper.Will let you know.

Thanx Guys, one thing I have noticed after shooting 80 rds of different bullets and COL's is, for This model 11 Savage .204 is the gun doesn't care what I feed it, I took Hot Core's advise about working back in .005 increments from just off the lands, and I really didn't find a sweet spot, but I through up some nice groups, I noticed that my bad groups were shooter error. I think the gun shoots better than I do! One thing I don't like is, I have to have 27 grn of benchmark powder, If I try and bump up the load I get chitty accuracy with no signs of pressure, so my 4225 fps (factory spec)Isn't going to happen if I want good groups, even factory shells shoot like ass, around 1 to 2 inches at 100 yds.

Hey Brent, That may get you back to what I mentioned in my first post:

quote:

You can't always get a rifle to fire a bullet well just because it is a bullet you want to use.

Your particular rifle might just prefer a different Bullet. That can be aggravating, but it is just the way these things work out sometimes.