Can I use the standard 8x57 mauser dies to load the 8x57jrs? If not where are the dies and shellholder available for the jrs?

I see that Norma has cases and bullets - is there any other case source?

Finally does anyone have a suggestion for starting loads?

Palmer,

The original 8X57 mauser has a bullet diameter of .318". The Germans later modified the 8X57 by increasing the bullet diameter to .323"
and designated the cartridge the 8X57JS.

These two CANNOT be interchanged. Dies for the
.318" bullets cannot be used to reload the 8X57JS cartridge with the .323" bullets.

The 8X57JS, when loaded properly is the balistic equal of the 30-06.

Loadings would depend on what you are going to hunt. For deer try the Speer 170gr. semi-spitzer with 4064 and 49grs as MAX. For bigger
stuff try the Speer 200gr spitzer and H205 with 55gr as MAX. Next up would be the Hornady 220gr
spire point using IMR 4831 with 50.4gr as MAX.

Hope this helps,

Don

Palmer,

While everything Don says is correct. The short answer is you can probably use the same dies. I say that because most 8x57 dies sold here in the US are .323 inch dies. Finding .318 dies is usually a special order.

Bill

O forgot to mention that the JRS is a rimmed cartridge so the rimless shelholder won't work. I beleive the one for the .444 will be the one you need.

Bill

I use the 8x57 dies for my 8x57JRS. Just the shellholder is differant. I use 200 gr. Nosler Partition with 4064 powder in my Sodia drilling.Tom

The JS dies will work for the JR if the bullet tension is enough.

If it's not then eliminate the expanding button and try again.

Doesn't The 8mmx57mmJRS. take a .323 diameter bullet? what am I missing here? Why the mention of the .318? roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Doesn't The 8mmx57mmJRS. take a .323 diameter bullet? what am I missing here? Why the mention of the .318? roger

Because the "STANDARD" 8X57 in the original
question uses a .318" bullet!



Roger, you are usually too sharp to miss the point. Limited exposure to the 8X57 mauser,
perhaps?

Added point: The 8X57jRs is a rimmed cartridge.

The 8X57JS is the typical rimless cartridge.

They dont't interchange either!

So if the intended use of this cartridge is in a
typical bolt action, the R version won't work!
This would require the simple JS version which
is similar to the 7X57.

1. 8X57J = Rimless cartridge using
.318" bullets

2. 8X57JS = Rimless cartridge using .323"
bullets

3. 8x57JRS = Rimmed cartridge using .323"
bullets.

This is why the 8mm is not popular here. It's
too confusing for many riflemen. Gunsmiths hate
them for that reason, especially nowadays with
our litigation happy society!

Ever watch anyone buy .308 spire point bullets to reload in the ole 30-30? These seemingly small tittles can be important.

Palmer,

Components for 8X57IRS is available from almost every European ammo manufacturer, Norma, RWS, Hirtenberger, Sako, Lapua and Sellier&Belliot (named Shit & Bullocks by some), Privi Partisan, etc. 8X57IS dies should work for 8X57IRS.

Lapua & Norma offers free data on their websites. www.norma.cc www.lapua.com

RWS manual is very good and useful. DEVA reloading manual is recommended by many Germans.

Now, what kind of gun is it that you got, drilling, double rifle, bbf? Don’t be shy

Cheers
/JOHAN

quote:

Originally posted by JOHAN:
Palmer,

Now, what kind of gun is it that you got, drilling, double rifle, bbf? Don’t be shy

Cheers
/JOHAN

Exactly! JRS is a RIMMED cartridge using .323"
bullets, and used in rifles other than bolt guns.

Yes, don't be shy. What rifle do you have?

1. 1888 mauser? - .318" bullets (8X57J)

2. 1898 mauser? - .323" bullets (8X57JS)

3. Drilling or double rifle? Rimmed brass &.323" bullets (8X57JRS)

Thanks for the information. I am waiting for a drilling which should arrive next week. It has no dies or brass with it so I will have to round up everything from scratch.

I am looking forward to trying it on coyotes and taking it to Africa next year as a backup rifle -- also hope to whack some of those birds that run along side the truck all the time.

It is for the .323 bullet and definately is a JRS.

Have to admit I am still a little boggled but will use your information as a place to start learning about it and to purchase the dies, shellholder, cases and bullets.

Brass from both Norma and RWS is available from
Huntingtons reloading supply. Bullets can found almost anywhere.

http://www.huntingtons.com

quote:

Originally posted by Don Slater:
Brass from both Norma and RWS is available from
Huntingtons reloading supply. Bullets can found almost anywhere.

http://www.huntingtons.com

Part # 4980

Depending on the condition/vintage/design of your drilling, you may also be able to shoot the rimless 8x57 JS in it. Whether the extractor(s) will extract the fired rimless cases is likely to be the only serious concern.

I have a 9.5x57 single shot which is chambered for the rimmed cases, but it operates just as well with the rimless cases. That's a nice thing, as it means I don't have to continuously find rimmed brass when I need new stuff.

Palmer, most modern dies sold as 8mm Mauser or 8x57 should properly have been marked 8x57IS (or 8x57JS). The "S" designates the .323 cal bullet. And yes, these dies will be useable for the rimmed 8x57IRS caliber.

The omission of the complete cartridge designation in 8x57I (.318 cal) vs 8x57IS (.323 cal) is an unfortunate practice. It was a rotten choice to keep the "basic" 8x57 designation in the first place! Fortunately, by far the most (all?) common dies currently available will be for the .323 cal version.

Finding a shell holder should not be a problem - at least it wasn't for me. If your caliber is not listed directly as a shell holder choice, look for alternatives 7x65R and 7x57R.

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by Don Slater:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Doesn't The 8mmx57mmJRS. take a .323 diameter bullet? what am I missing here? Why the mention of the .318? roger

3. 8x57JRS = Rimmed cartridge using .323"
bullets.

My point exactly, Don. The original question never involved the .318 dia. 8x57, yet somehow it snuck into the thread. It made it sound as if the 8mmx57 jrs was .318dia. and THAT CONFUSED ME. Why the unesscessary retoric concerning the .318? Thanks for pointing out that I'm usually sharper than that. roger

Laughs, I can guarantee you that if you try to load 8x57J, or 8x60mm, cases using standard 8mm(0.323) dies, you'll experience (xxx%%%##@@@***) when the 0.318 bullets fall thru the neck. (voice of experience and chagrin speaking) There are just enough J-bore rifles still out there to warrant the discussion seen here, and they are the reason for the factory underloading of the 8x57mm Mauser ammo in the USA, so someone can cram a 0.323 bullet thru a 0.318 bore without damage. Once you get into the realm of handloading, those safety margins disappear in a heartbeat.

LLS

quote:

Originally posted by Don Slater:

quote:

Originally posted by JOHAN:
Palmer,

Now, what kind of gun is it that you got, drilling, double rifle, bbf? Don’t be shy

Cheers
/JOHAN

Exactly! JRS is a RIMMED cartridge using .323"
bullets, and used in rifles other than bolt guns.

Yes, don't be shy. What rifle do you have?

1. 1888 mauser? - .318" bullets (8X57J)

2. 1898 mauser? - .323" bullets (8X57JS)

3. Drilling or double rifle? Rimmed brass &.323" bullets (8X57JRS)

And the 8x57JR uses a .318 bullet, is a rimmed cartridge, the 8x57JRS uses a .323, with the same case, as the JR, Both rounds are for drillings, cape guns, and double rifles. 8x57JR die sets, and shell holders are available from RCBS. The throat can be opened up slightly and they work with the .323 bullets!

These confusing designations are the reason rifles chambered for 8mm cartridges have never been very popular in the USA, I'm glad because the prices of the double rifle so chambered are around at bargain prices!
Palmer, are you sure you have a JRS,.323 or is it a JR .318?

Thanks again everyone - this information is exactly what I needed - AR is amazing.

Mac - I am waiting for the drilling to get here this week to be sure, but it was sold as a JRS and the owner said it was for the 323 bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Don Slater:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Doesn't The 8mmx57mmJRS. take a .323 diameter bullet? what am I missing here? Why the mention of the .318? roger

3. 8x57JRS = Rimmed cartridge using .323"
bullets.

My point exactly, Don. The original question never involved the .318 dia. 8x57, yet somehow it snuck into the thread. It made it sound as if the 8mmx57 jrs was .318dia. and THAT CONFUSED ME. Why the unesscessary retoric concerning the .318? Thanks for pointing out that I'm usually sharper than that. roger

Roger,

In his original post, Palmer wanted to know if he could use "standard" 8X57 dies. Standard dies would involve necking for the .318" bullet
which will not accept the .323" bullet used by the 8X57jrs.

I was trying to clarify which diameter bullet he was going to use. The dies cannot be used
interchangeably between the .318" daiameter and .323" diameter.

Most of us have grown used to standard 8X57
meaning 8X57JS, but this is not so. The plain
ole standard 8X57 uses the .318" diameter bullet. (At least in my mind?)

So, by asking about "standard" dies, the question most certainly involved the .318" dameter bullet!

And by the way, I sincerely mean the "sharper than that" statement. You quite often see minutia the rest of us overlook in our assessments! And the small things
are often important!

We actually know now he is getting a rifle chambered in the 8X57JRS, a rimmed cartridge
using .323" bullets.

Z-Hat has the dies. Huntington Reloading Supply
has Norma and RWS brass, and just about everyone
carries .323" diameter bullets.

I'm sure some of our European friends can provide loads.

Palmer is all set, so we need debate no longer!

Roger,

In his original post, Palmer wanted to know if he could use "standard" 8X57 dies. Standard dies would involve necking for the .318" bullet
which will not accept the .323" bullet used by the 8X57jrs.

I was trying to clarify which diameter bullet he was going to use. The dies cannot be used
interchangeably between the .318" daiameter and .323" diameter.

Most of us have grown used to standard 8X57
meaning 8X57JS, but this is not so. The plain
ole standard 8X57 uses the .318" diameter bullet. (At least in my mind?)

So, by asking about "standard" dies, the question most certainly involved the .318" dameter bullet!
[/QUOTE]

I see where you are coming from. The standard to me meant what became standard when the German military droped the ORIGINAL 8mmx57mm in .318 diameter. Definitly a definiton of terms problem. No foul intened or received. roger

The 8x57IRS is the rimned version of the 8x57IS. Both use the .323 bullet. No modern gun is available in the old .318 caliber - these rounds are called the 8x57IR and 8x57I.
It is no problem to use the standard 8x57Mauser-die, shell-holder No. 26 (RCBS) or the No. 4 (for standard magnums)work fine. Do not use the shell-holder from the 7x57R, it uses an other size!
Johan has said, nearly each european ammo-maker has cases in 8x57IRS. I`m always wondering, why americans are fearing problems with the .318 and .323 caliber! Look to the cases or to the guns, you´ll find clear marking whether ii is the old .318 or the .323 caliber! If you by RWS-ammo, than the .323 cartridges use black primersall( 8x57IS, IRS, 8x60S and 8x68S)

I have two boxes of Sellier & Beloit 8x57 JRS ammo for sale if anyone wants it?
kailuacustom@msn.com

Aloha, Mark