I am looking in to buying a Concentricity gauge. I have been looking at the new Hornady "Ammunition Concentricity Tool" I just wanted some opinions on this and other models and to see what you guys think. I like the new one from Hornady because it gives me the option to straiten out rounds that are off.


In the pole if you think I should buy another one, please tell me which and why.

Question:
Should I buys Hornadys "Ammunition Concentricity Tool"?

Choices:
Yes
No
Buy a different one!

 

I bought the RCBS Case Master. Measures just about any aspect of a case you want, including concentrcity, neck and wall thickness case length, etc, etc.

Ken....

James I thought the Hornady unit looked good as well. There are any number of good guages out there but this one lets you do something about those rounds that might have otherwise been relegated to plinking.I havent used one because all my important ammo is loaded on Wilson dies in arbour press. go for the Hornady unit.

Von Gruff

James,
I will offer you a different perspective.
I was a machinist for about 5 years, most of that time and 2 years part time was spent running an engine lathe. I learned that it is pretty easy to see run out in a small turning object. I could easily see .003 off center. This corresponds to the tip of a bullet with a total wobble or run out of .006.
You can easily see this degree of run out especially with a long spitzer by just rolling a loaded rimless round across a smooth flat surface. A kitchen table is often good enough.

I learned this was a factor with a .25-06 M700 Remington. This rifle did not shoot as well as my other 700s rarely shooting into less than 1.5". One day I switched to another bullet and happened to roll it across my work bench. It had a lot of runout. I carried the laoded ammo tot he kitchen table and tried again. Same result. I took the seater die to work and chucked it into a newly delivered 15" Leblond Regal. Back then it was pretty much the Mercedes-Benz of engine lathes. The seating die stem had about .030 total indicated runout. It appeared the die was crooked or the seating stem was way off center.
I called the die manufacturer and they said sent both dies back and 3 cases and 3 bullets.
About 10 days later I got a new set of dies back and my bullets had been seated in the empty cases. Two round had a lot of runout and one was perfectly straight. I pulled the crooked bullets and reseated them. They reseated without any runout.
My rifles accuracy immediately improved and began shooting much like my other 700s, groups shrank to between 5/8' and 3/4' at 100 yards with a common out of the book load.

Before you buy a checker roll your ammo and use your eye balls. Especially with long pointy spitzers seated way out of the case it is easy to see significant run out of the bullets.

makes good sense - thanks, SR.

i've also heard (not sure how true this is) that giving them a roll on a flat surface helps cartridges loaded with stick powderss "line up" better for more uniform burning/pressure etc. if true, rolling would kill two birds with one stone.

Hey guys thanks for all the helpful info!

Heat, I was told the RCBS gauge scratches the hell out of cases?

Von, I agree and is the reason why I want to get it, because if give your the option to fix un-true bullets.

SR, Damn that is very helpful! I will have to dust off my 6.5x55 and 30-06 and role them accost the table!! thank you for such a tip! the next thing is why didnt I see that?! I m starting a Machining coarse in the fall. If I pass my math....ugh!

Tasunkawitko, hell of a name! I ll do some resurch on that to see how much it holds up If it is true, that would be good info to know!

just call me tas or taz for short! or simply ron!

James,
What you have to consider is whether you want to fix the cause of the run-out, or simply fix the ammo. I would look to the Sinclair gauge and fix the process. Actually, the wobble test may suffice, although the gauge can help to localize run-out source.

I have the Sinclair gauge and it is a great tool. It only takes a second to check a round.

I check each and every round and write the run-out on the base just above the extractor groove with a sharpie. I then put them into my box of 50 largest to smallest runout and shoot the worst for fouling shots and the best for groups.

I wonder if the Hornady gauge moves the bullet inside the kneck or bends the kneck "the latter you cant have"

If you want one that will not only check but let you correct if required:

http://www.benchrest.com/hnh/index.htm

Love mine! A lot of people are well meaning with the advice here but remember rolling on a table is not the best way to take a measurement..

The Hornady clearly shows how the gauge measures concentricity and pushes on the case neck to correct it


The H & H does not appear to have a mechanism to push on the bullet or case neck unless you raise the red lever

quote:

The only gauge that reads accurately.
Uniform height of v-block centers, and indicator block eliminate off-center� indicator readings.

Not caliber specific- provides enough slots and alternate holes to accept .22 PPC through .375 length cases.

Plastic center protects bullet nose while straightening.

Reversible spindle provides pilot for checking neck thickness.

(it won't let me post or copy the pic )

it would seem like they would at least mention that it straightens runout in the details and explanation (must not be very good marketers).

I use the Bersin Tool


which does reduce or eliminate runout by detecting it with a super sensitive dial and then pushing on the bullet. I will say that there are as many variables in being able to reduce runout as there are variables that contribute to creating runout. The hardness of the brass, the amount of bullet grip, the amount of crimp if any or the amount of runout to start with all effect the amount you can reduce it in the end.

By far the most important and effective way is to use sizing and seating methods that create as little runout as possible to begin with. But you do need a concentricity gauge to get a feel for what works and what doesn't.

quote:

Originally posted by James Kain:

Heat, I was told the RCBS gauge scratches the hell out of cases?

I haven't witness it scratching any of my cases. I do admit one thing I like about the Hornady tool is the ability to correct the runout. I wonder if it would handle my 338-378 Wby loads?

Ken....

I have do not know if it would or would not. But I m sure it can handle it.
As of right now I am thinking of getting some Redding bushing dies and see where that takes me. I m also thinking of the RCBS gauge. I v been tossing around the idea on both sides of the fence. But I m thinking that getting the bushing dies is the way to go. Less chance of run out and need to correct. To also help matters I m going to start annealing my cases too. I just wish the damn machine was not 300-375 price range!
Thanks for the info, if there is anything else or more opinions let me know.

James,
Do some searches on each of the tools. There should be a lot out there.

quote:

Originally posted by Winchester 69:
James,
Do some searches on each of the tools. There should be a lot out there.

That is very true, I have done a small bit of research. But I have been a bit close minded to this. Thank you for reminding me.

Hey James

If you are really wanting to reduce runout then the bushing dies are not the way to go unless you neck turn. If you don't neck turn then they can actually increase runout quite a bit.

For runout you need to get a Lee Collet Neck Sizer and with the money you will save by comparison with the bushing die then buy a Redding Body Die for when you need to push the shoulder back.

No offense woods, I will never buy lee equipment again. I have had issues with how cheap some of there equipment is. I m going to leave it with that.

I do do all my annealing sizing and trimming. I just want to help to reduce run out to reduce group sizes. I m thinking I m going have to go back and review some info

With the bushing dies you purchase the bushing size you need and that will size the outside of your case neck to that dimension. Now that is all good but they come with an expander ball that you then drag back through the neck to expand the neck. Might as well be using a regular FL die.

Most, including me, remove the expander ball and just choose the appropriate bushing based upon the thickness of your neck brass and the amount of bullet grip you want. When you remove the expander then the bushing will push all the variance in neck thickness to the inside of the neck. When you seat the bullet the thicker side on the inside of the case will push the bullet to one side creating runout.

If you neck turn to a consistant neck thickness or you are lucky enough to get brass with a consistant neck thickness then the bushing die will work much better.

Then the bushing dies will be better. Though still not better than the Lee Collet Neck Sizer.

The Lee Collet Neck Die works.

Anyone's bushing die might work. Won't work if we haven't laboriously prepared the cases before hand tho.

In my experience, ANY reloading tool that doesn't "work right" has been due to my failure to use it correctly, no matter who made it. Nothing is fool proof. ??

I have the Sinclair concentricity gauge.

In the box it comes with a little fortune cookie piece of paper that says, "You will probably find the problem is caused by the expander ball."

The fortune cookie was right!


I take the Lee Collet die apart and polish the sliding surfaces on the lathe. Then I engrave the outside of the die.


Just kidding.
I wouldn't engrave a wedding ring, let alone gun stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
I have the Sinclair concentricity gauge.

In the box it comes with a little fortune cookie piece of paper that says, "You will probably find the problem is caused by the expander ball."

The fortune cookie was right!


I take the Lee Collet die apart and polish the sliding surfaces on the lathe. Then I engrave the outside of the die.


Just kidding.
I wouldn't engrave a wedding ring, let alone gun stuff.

Funny thing I was thinking about polishing some of my equipment as well as some of the actions for my rifles and pistols, with in reason(so not to change the tolerances). What did you use to polish your equipment?
If you want PM me or start a thread on the subject?

quote:

Originally posted by James Kain:
Funny thing, I was thinking about polishing some of my equipment as well as some of the actions for my rifles and pistols, within reason (so as not to change the tolerances). What did you use to polish your equipment?

If you search on the Gunsmithing forum, you should be able to find a lot of info.