I wanted new brass but found only 284 Win, I tried to expand the collar from .284 to .308 but after two cases I destroyed the brass and damaged my RCBS die (my cases were correctly lubed and the inside of the collar too).

I think the only solution is fireforming, but I have no information about it:

1- Can I shoot a .284 bullet in a .308 barrel and will the neck expand sufficiently?

2- What kind of bullet should I use (lead only or jacketed)?

3- Which percentage of powder from a normal load should I use and what type of powder (just precise black or quick or slow because powder manufacturing is a monopole in France and we cannot find other powder brands)?

I thank you in advance for your answers, I know how to reload but resizing from another caliber and fireforming are new for me.

P.L. PETIT

quote:

---

Originally posted by plpetit:
I have got a Schmidt Rubin KAR 31 rechambered in 30X284 (military calibers are forbidden in France), I used successfully 30X284 ammunitions and reloaded them.

I wanted new brass but found only 284 Win, I tried to expand the collar from .284 to .308 but after two cases I destroyed the brass and damaged my RCBS die (my cases were correctly lubed and the inside of the collar too).

I think the only solution is fireforming, but I have no information about it:

1- Can I shoot a .284 bullet in a .308 barrel and will the neck expand sufficiently?

2- What kind of bullet should I use (lead only or jacketed)?

3- Which percentage of powder from a normal load should I use and what type of powder (just precise black or quick or slow because powder manufacturing is a monopole in France and we cannot find other powder brands)?

I thank you in advance for your answers, I know how to reload but resizing from another caliber and fireforming are new for me.

P.L. PETIT

---

Shooting .284 bullets down a .308 bore can be done, but it's not something I would even consider. Rather, you can fireform without a bullet, by using fast shotgun/pistol powder, a filler like cream of wheat cereal, and a wax plug (or stick the neck in a bar of soap) to hold it all together. Start with 8 grains or so, and increase until you get a nice fireformed case. HOWEVER, you can't use the bullet to headspace on with this method, so your brass must fit in the chamber properly to prevent head-space separations.

Back to the original problem, though. Something isn't right. What damage was done to the dies? What did the ruined cases look like? How did you go about this? HTH, Dutch.

I suspect as above you need a tapered expander button from RCBS and if you ruined or damaged your dies, you got way to aggressive in your endeavor...sounds like you could use some instruction if someone is available that can assist you...

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I used my RCBS dies just as normal, I did not removed the decapping pin.

I paid attention to the first case, acted slowly, progressively moved downward my press handle while turning gently the case: perfect result.

I acted for the second one just like I was resizing a used case, not brutaly but somemore quickly, I did not notice (noticed afterwrds) that the collar was slightly bent.

I proceeded the third mecanically, everything got wrong, the case was torn from the collar to the shoulder, the pin was broken and the rod of my die was bent!

The problem lies certainly from the second case which provoked a misalignment of the decapping pin, the pressure did not act as expected a side of the case neck was weaker than the other.

I thank all of you for the good freforming recipes, I think I shall be more clever using that solution!

Headspace is not a problem, the case fills exactly the chamber except for the caliber.

P.L. PETIT

1. Charge the case with fast powder as advised above. (Your primer should be a PISTOL, not rifle, primer.)
2. Tamp a small wad of paper (about 1/4 square of toilet tissue) atop the powder charge (lightly).
3. Fill the case to the mouth with fairly fine dry cereal (NEVER, EVER flour)
4. Seal the mouth of the case with a smear of soft grease, wax, or soap. NEVER, EVER use a bullet.

Bonne chance, mon ami!

[This message has been edited by Ken Howell (edited 10-23-2001).]

1. CCI 200 primer

2. 11 gr unique powder. Tamp case lightly to flatten charge.

3. Slowly fill case to mouth with Cream of Wheat. Cover mouth with finger and lightly tap bottom of case on bench to settle the cereal. The cereal usually settles to the bottom of the neck.

4. Pull off 1 square of toilet paper. Roll it into a worm. Pull about 1" off the end and coil into case neck. Makes a pretty tight plug.

5. Load and shoot. Definately point in a safe direction, and don't do in town (loud). Watch your barrel temp as it will heat up almost as fast as shooting regular loads.

FWIW, Canuck.

Ken

Why NOT use flour?--Will it (possibly)
creat a dust-explosion, or is there
another problem? the_captn

quote:

---

Originally posted by captnemo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ken Howell:
(NEVER, EVER flour)

Ken

Why NOT use flour?--Will it (possibly)
creat a dust-explosion, or is there
another problem? the_captn

---

It's 'way too fine. It packs solid and plugs the neck. Pressures soar, sometimes ruinously..

When Winchester started buffering shot with one of my friend "Bill" Williams's inventions, "Grex," shotshell handloaders tried using flour as a substitute for it. 'Tweren't good judgment -- the flour packed hard and solid, plugged barrels, and blew-up shotguns.

I once examined most of the pieces of a thoroughly devastated shotgun and told the insurance company's lawyer that the handloader had probably tried to buffer his shot with flour. When the plaintiff's lawyer told his client what I'd "found," the fellow immediately dropped the suit (suggesting that [a] my "opinion" must've seemed like ESP and [b] must've been right on the nose.

[This message has been edited by Ken Howell (edited 10-24-2001).]

Okay; thanks for the info.

the_captn

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

quote:

---

Originally posted by plpetit:
Here what happened!

I used my RCBS dies just as normal, I did not removed the decapping pin.

I paid attention to the first case, acted slowly, progressively moved downward my press handle while turning gently the case: perfect result.

I acted for the second one just like I was resizing a used case, not brutaly but somemore quickly, I did not notice (noticed afterwrds) that the collar was slightly bent.

I proceeded the third mecanically, everything got wrong, the case was torn from the collar to the shoulder, the pin was broken and the rod of my die was bent!

The problem lies certainly from the second case which provoked a misalignment of the decapping pin, the pressure did not act as expected a side of the case neck was weaker than the other.

I thank all of you for the good freforming recipes, I think I shall be more clever using that solution!

Headspace is not a problem, the case fills exactly the chamber except for the caliber.

P.L. PETIT

---

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OL CRIP
NUCLEAR GRADE UBC RETIRED

I used 10 gr of pistol powder, "couscous" (ground cereal from arabian origin) and toilet paper to top the cartridge.

I checked my tools, the cases which were formed/destroyed, I cannot see the origin of my problems, I suspected a wrong shell holder (for 30X30 for instance), but the mounted one was the #3 from RCBS.

But never mind the job is done correctly now!

I thank you all who helped me.

P.L. PETIT

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com