The blue dot thread got me thinking. I'd like to work up some mild loads for my wifes .308 with 110 and 125 gr bullets in the 2200-2400 range. I did a search and found a few threads relating to loads with 147 and 150 gr bullets. I was wondering if blue dot is suitable for those speeds?

Paul it is definitely within the realm of those velocities, with the 110 and the 125 grain bullets.

In fact, I think with Blue Dot in a 30 caliber, the 125 and 150 grain Ballistic tips would be a great rifle to carry in the field.

I do not own a 308, but have about half a dozen 30/06s a 30/40 Krag, a 300 Mag, and several 30/30s.
I am trying to run one down, to do some testing in it. However, I do own 243s, 260s, 6mm Rem, 6.5 x 55, 7 x 57a etc. Blue dot is pretty consistent with patterns in those cartridges.

If you own a chronograph, I can recommend that you start at about 18 grains of Blue Dot and work up. With the 125s, I would guestimate that the right combo would be right around 22.5 grains.
Working up is the key. I know that 22.5 grains in a 260 Ruger with a 120 and 129 grain bullet are just fine not presenting pressure problems.

If you do work up a load, keep us posted on your results.

If I get access to a 308, I will also test it.
Actually I was looking at doing some testing in a 308 with Blue Dot and the 170 grain Flat Nose to make a sort of Bolt action 30/30 equivalent.

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

In my .308 I used the Golden West 150gr. bullet and started with 16gr. of Blue Dot and went to 23.8 grs. of Blue Dot. Until I hit the 23.8 mark I was getting some sooty necks, but not much . At 23.8 the soot was gone, the primers just a little flattened and the velocity measured 2322 fps. I'm confident with that load or a little less powder you will be in the range you are looking for with your lighter bullets. Hope you don't mind me throwing my info in here ,john? roger

Roger;

Not only do I not mind, I thank you for your assistance and input. As I don't own a 308. I need to borrow one somewhere and do a little testing with it.

I know you work with Mausers a lot. How hard would it be to get an Adams and Bennett Barrel in 308 from midway and get it put on a Mauser action. I have a candidate that needs to be rebarreled.
Currently it is a 22/250. I would do some testing and then probably take it off, and rebarrel it to something that I would use, like a 6mm Rem or a 22.243.

Seafire - that bbl work would be easy. I've done it a couple times already. A&B barrels are short-chambered, and you can run the finish reamer in the last .050" by hand if you're careful. I do my rebarreling without any power tools. All you need is about $150 for the barrel and a reamer rental. the_captain

Just another Load

149gr. selected by weight.23.4gr. Blue Dot,WLR Primers 2.895 oal. 2502 to 2563 ft/sec. 3 shot 1/4" grp. 10 shots you could cover with a quarter. 50 yards. roger

Captain:

Thanks for your input. I will check into doing that!

seafire.

Roger,

quote:

149gr. selected by weight.23.4gr. Blue Dot,WLR Primers 2.895 oal. 2502 to 2563 ft/sec. 3 shot 1/4" grp. 10 shots you could cover with a quarter. 50 yards. roger

Is that a jacketed or cast bullet?

Thanks for the pointers. I picked up a pound of blue dot, and a box each of hornady 110 gr sp, and 125 balistic tips. I killed my chrony with an errant gas check from my 480, so I'll be shooting for accuracy only.

I plan to get my children .308's, so this will be a load that they'll learn to shoot with. I also have the lee 115 gr (soupcan) mold, and they have shot quite well at 50 yds with loads of Unique in the 1400-1700 fps range.

quote:

Originally posted by C1PNR:
Roger,

"Is that a jacketed or cast bullet?

"

They were jacketed psp w/c bulk that I sorted. roger

Paul H.,
I may have some data that would be useful for you. This summer I bought a Savage bolt action rifle in 308 Win for my 10 year old son to deer hunt w/. My intent was to develop a reduced recoil load using Blue Dot powder and either Hornady 130 gr SSP or 125 gr NBT bullets. I ended up choosing the NBT for the final hunting load as it seemed a little more accurate in the early stages. The season was fast approaching so I had to hurry. At any rate, using the 125 gr NBT at 2490 fps, he ended up killing a small 8 pt and a doe, both w/ single shots. The buck was severely angling toward us so that he ended up putting the bullet to far back; entered just behind the shoulder and did not exit (ended up somewhere in the paunch). Deer ran close to 180 yds, about 130 in the woods. Not surprisingly, there was no blood trail; that was the fault of bullet placement, not the fault of the bullet. The doe was shot broadside just behind the shoulders at 100 yds. Ran 35 yds w/ easy to follow blood trail and large entrance and exit holes. I think I'll continue to use this load next year, but should refine the load some more, as well.

Here's my load work. IMI match brass/primer pockets uniformed/flash holes deburred/concentricity <0.002"/both bullets loaded 0.035" off the lands. Pressures were not high. 9X Simmons scope. Groups are 3 shots. Temp 85 deg.
50 yds
Hornady 130 gr SSP
19.0 gr/2176 fps
20.0 gr/2233 fps
21.0 gr/2298 fps/0.79"
22.0 gr/2368 fps/1.49"

Nosler 125 gr. BT
21.0 gr/2340 fps/0.87"
22.0 gr/2433 fps/0.172" (that's NOT a typo)

100 yds, very windy.
Nosler 125 gr. BT
22.5 gr/2455 fps/2.56"/extreme spread 23 fps/standard dev 11 fps
23.0 gr?2489 fps/1.74"/e.s. 8 fps/s.d. 4 fps*** final hunting load.

The final hunting load later shot much better during final sighting in, but didn't record groups. Of course, the gun may also shoot better w/ more use as it was being broken w/ the load development. I would not hesitate to use the 125 gr NBT on small whitetail deer at your proposed velocities.
Gary T.

Not really 100% relevant but the Blue Dot/.308 loads being quoted are pretty close to my experiments with Blue Dot in the 7.62x54R and using a 123gr Hornady.
Cheers...
Con

I managed to get in a short range session at lunch. I loaded up the 110 gr hornady sp and 125 nosler bt over increasing charges of blue dot, starting at 18.5 gr, and increasing to 21.5 gr, in 5 different charge weights. I used my powder thrower, so I only checked high and low weights. All groups are 3 shots, temp ~35F, and a slight wind at the end of the range.

The 18.5 gr charge over the 110 hornady grouped a tad under 1/2", then groups opened up in the 1 1/2 to 2" range, until the 21.5 gr group, that was just under 1".

The 18.5 gr charge under the 125 gr bt was a bit over 1", and the groups opened up from there.

Recoil and report are both mild. I'll probably work up to about 23 gr under the 110 gr hornady, then play with seating.

The gun hasn't been fired in well over a year, and as I recall, I shot some cast bullet loads before putting it away. I also finished with some of the 115 gr cast bullet loads at 50 yds. 5 shot groups were about 1" or under. I'm not sure what the charge of unique was under the lee 115 gr (soup cans). I have shot them at 100 yds, and the groups really open up, but they are good at 50.

Time to give the barrel a good scrub, and try some more loads. I think my wife is going to enjoy shooting them.

One interesting note, I'm pretty sure the gun is sighted in for full patch 180 gr loads, 3" at 100 yds. Both the 110 and 125 gr loads were printing 1" high at 100. So, it looks like a sight adjustment may not be needed when using these loads for practice.

I'm definately going to be starting my kids off with .308's, and blue dot 110 gr loads.

Con,

How was your accuracy? Did you get fps readings? I presume this is the .310 - .311 Hornady?

I'm looking at trying some cast in M38 and M44 Mosins at velocities in this same neighborhood.

Paul:

Like Gary T. found out in a 308 sized case the magical accuracy seems to be right at 22.5 grains of Blue Dot. I have found this to be true in a 243, a 260 Rem, and a friend found it out in a 7/08.

The magical load for a 57 mm case seems to be at 24 grains. That has been tested in a 6 mm Rem, a 7 x 57, a 6.5 x 57 and a 6.5 x 55. ( yEAH I KNOW, not a 57 mm case, but close enough for government work.)

I will also recommend trying the 150 grain Ballistic Tip also with the 22.5 grain load.
Do the usual work up, but in other things I have tried I do not suspect that it will give problems at all.

I have also found the following which is important to note;

If Blue Dot is not initially accurate in your barrel, give it about 5 or 10 shots. The groups seem to tighten up in barrels after that, if there was an inital accuracy problem, or it was not quite what was expected.

Not all of my rifles have shown that quirk, but I have noticed it in several. Almost seems like some of them just like a little breakin with Blue Dot. Two exhibited this quirk, repeatedly if I shoot another powder besides Blue Dot since the last time they had had Blue Dot down the barrel.

Three or four cleaning shots, and the next group is good and tight. Both of these rifles are finicky about what they like to begin with, and Blue Dot has by far been the most accurate loads in both rifles.

Welcome to the Blue Dot club.

cheers
seafire

I'll give 22.5 a go next time out. Any suggestions on seating depth? I don't think I have any 150's, though I did notice a box of 165 bt's. I might also try some 130 gr barnes triple shocks. I'd expect them to provide quite bit more penetration, yet still open up out to say 200 yds.

The barrel definately doesn't heat up much. I fired off the 30 rounds in less than 15 minutes. It was definately much milder on the shoulder and ears than the 458 Lott I fired today

Paul,

for seating depth, I always either go with magazine length if the throat will take it, or max throat length by making a dummy round and then just back off the seating depth a 1/4 a turn on the seating die. No rocket science here.

If the throat is not capable of magazine length, I usually will have the barrel throated out so it will.

Work up, but I'd say those 165s will take a 22.5 grains of BL/Dot and a 165 grain Ballistic Tip in a 308. I took at Elk at 175 yrds on a broadside shot with a 165 grain ballistic tip, leaving the muzzle at 2250 fps. It destroyed both lungs, the liver and cut the esophagus in half, and was bulged on the off hide. It was a cow elk that weighed about 650 lbs on the hoof according to Montana Wildlife & Game guys, who hung it to weigh it at the check in station.

They were surprised the Ballistic Tip did such a good job, at a lower Muzzle velocity.

Cheers
seafire

C1PNR,
Do a serach for Blue Dot and my user name and you should be able to find my data as I posted it on AR. Accuracy with Blue Dot was very acceptable in a Nagant M44, but the 123gr Hornady really strung out vertically as loads were increased. My final loads were just a touch low at 100 yards using the 100 yard sight setting. If I remember rightly, velocity was around 2500fps. The beauty of these loads was that it negated the blast that's half the fun of using an M44. Hoping in the coming months to try a 180gr jacketed projectile in the M44 using Blue Dot, seeing as I've now got a fresh tin of Blue Dot!
Cheers...
Con

Got it! Thanks Con!

24.5 grains of BD worked best in my 30-06s using the Hornady 130 SSP (they were more accurate than NBTs in my guns).
In the 7.7X58 which is about the same case capacity (my barrel is tight enough to shoot 0.308" bullets) shot best with 22.5 grains BD. That ends up a "exact" ratio by case capacity with the 06 as it works out!
7.7 is 60 grains capacity and 308 is 56 so the above is slightly off. Start low, work up.

I never have chronoed the loads but will remedy that one of these days!

Seafire's loads proved so interesting I bought a jug of Blue Dot. A pound did NOT last long.

I managed to put a few more pills down range. Most loads were 22.5 gr blue dot and the 110 hornady and 125 balistic tip, at various seating depths. Accuracy was around 1-2" for 3 shots for most groups, so nothing steller. I'll have to try seating the 110's further out.

The big suprise was 18.5 gr of blue dot under a 165 gr hornady boat tail. Both groups had all shots tougching, the group with the bullets seated slightlty further out was one ragged hole, I'll have to measure the group when I get home.

The 18.5gr groups have much less muzzleblast and a slower recoil than the 22.5 gr loads. Even with the heavier 165 gr bullet, recoil was quite mild. I need to get an RCBS 170 gr bullet mold, and I think I'll have an outstanding load!

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
I killed my chrony with an errant gas check from my 480, so I'll be shooting for accuracy only.

Paul, you probably already know this, but if you don't.... Chrony sells its basic factory reconditioned machine, with a new machine warranty, for under $50. You might want to talk with them about a replacement...who knows, they might even offer to do a warranty repair for you. Worth a phone call, either way.

Alberta Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
I killed my chrony with an errant gas check from my 480, so I'll be shooting for accuracy only.

Paul, you probably already know this, but if you don't.... Chrony sells its basic factory reconditioned machine, with a new machine warranty, for under $50. You might want to talk with them about a replacement...who knows, they might even offer to do a warranty repair for you. Worth a phone call, either way.

Alberta Canuck

That's exactly whay I killed with my 480, a $50 shooting (shot) chrony I'm planning to replace it with on Oehler, as the shooting chrony is finicky with lighting conditions, especially in the winter when the sun is down low.