When I get a new rifle I shoot various factory loads just to get a feel for what the gun likes and then I start working on loads with various bullets searching for a nice rounded load in both accuracy and velocity. Now I am in a bit of a pickle.

Here is some back ground on what I have going on in my 30-06.

Rem 700 SPS stainless 24" 30-06
Leupold optics 4x12

Gives me consistant 3/4" groups at 100 yds with the Win supreme 168 BST'S average velocity 2722 fps ( listed as 2750 by Win) 200 yard groups under 2" and my smallest was 1.35 ( very good day for me). The thin tube on this rifle will give 3 good tight shots and then throw them around a bit if I don't let it cool off for 15 mins or so.

Got a smoking deal on a few boxes of federal premium 165 game kings figured I would try them out. Well was I suprised with the results I got. Listed velocity 2800 my average over 40 rounds now is 2813 so speed is good but accuracy is just stellar with this load. I do not think I can better this lot of ammo with reloads with out going to the ends of the earth. At the range on Sat I shot a 6 shot group at 200 while I was wating for my 220 swift to cool off. The first 3 smack down the middle and the next three took the normal walk about with out letting the barrel cool for more than a couple of mins. I had a good day no doubt about that! but this rifle is a real shooter and is bone factory stock with just some trigger work.


What do you guys think? I say if it ain't broke don't fix it well at least untill I run out of this ammo. I am going to get a couple of more boxes of a different lot number at the regular price just to see and if it works well and if it does my deer load on the 06 is etched in stone. I was going to work on a 180 load for moose but since I may just need a bigger rifle for moose ( shhhhhhh..... yes dear bigger animals need bigger bullets so I need a bigger rifle for moose)I think I will forgo any load work for now and work on the Swift cause I got some yotes and wolves that need thinning out round here. Here is to streching a whole load of fir this winter.


Guys please don't say nuthin about the 06 being good for moose too or I will loose my allowence for something in the .338 range and I have been such a good boy this year.


First shot at posting a pic I hope this works

quote:

I say if it ain't broke don't fix it well at least untill I run out of this ammo.

yes.....and I'd go out to buy more of that lot of ammo.

Your post brings up the old debate factory-vs-handloads. First, you have to decide why handload. For me it's different reasons: one is the satisfaction of taking an animals with a round I made; second, I get to pick which components go together, especially important when considering bullets; third, I still think I can get better accuracy with my handloads over factory, but I have to really work at it anymore; lastly, when I travel I can carry enough handloads I don't have to worry about finding the exact factory load my gun likes.

For moose I love my .338 Win Mag. I have used the I need a new gun for a different animal ploy several times myself, but my wife is getting wise and I need a new angle. I would love to get a 325WSM to use for something, even if only to work up some good handloads.

Woody

Get some more of the factory ammo, but for heavens sake.... don't denie yourself the aggrevation of working a load up for it, too.

It sounds like the rifle is a real keeper. Enjoy!!!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

I say if it ain't broke don't fix it well at least untill I run out of this ammo.

yes.....and I'd go out to buy more of that lot of ammo.

I got it on a close out sale I have checked a half dozen other shops but as of yet have not found the same lot number lucky for me I got 140 of them left and are tucked away for field use. Seven boxes should do me for a while for deer and black bear hunting, though I think I would like a 180-200 for bears for a bit of insurance. I am going to grab a couple different boxes to try this weekend and I have my fingers crossed.

You can't be serious. Actually shoot a game animal with a factory load? I suppose it could be done, but how . . . . pedestrian.

quote:

Originally posted by woody7:
Your post brings up the old debate factory-vs-handloads. First, you have to decide why handload. For me it's different reasons: one is the satisfaction of taking an animals with a round I made; second, I get to pick which components go together, especially important when considering bullets; third, I still think I can get better accuracy with my handloads over factory, but I have to really work at it anymore; lastly, when I travel I can carry enough handloads I don't have to worry about finding the exact factory load my gun likes.

For moose I love my .338 Win Mag. I have used the I need a new gun for a different animal ploy several times myself, but my wife is getting wise and I need a new angle. I would love to get a 325WSM to use for something, even if only to work up some good handloads.

Woody

Well I was thinking 06 for deer .338-06 for moose I know both would be lovely for black bear but then again black bear is bigger than whitetail yet smaller than a moose so I might need a special plan to get something else. I will work on a game plan on this end. Nothing really works in the middle of those two unless you have some ideas/

I say get more of the factory stuff. I bought a 25-06 Dakota Model 10. Bought some factory Winchester 115gr. To try until I got to reloading. It shoots them at .75MOA tried the 95s? and they shoot 1 MOA to the same point of impact. That was 6 years ago. Haven't load one for it yet.

I also came across a closeout on 358 Norma 250gr for $20/box. My short barrel with peep sights shoots them at 2700 and 2" at 100. To bad all they had was 5 boxes. I couldn't buy brass for that.

Well I got to frigging around a wee bit today with some home rollies I whipped up just for fun.

Same rifle specs optics as listed in my first post.

Here is the load and it is pretty mild in this rifle so I know I can get better speed which I think will tighten up the groups.


168 grn Mk
Virgin Win Brass FLR (Flash hole and primer pockets done).
Win LRP
55 grains H-414
Col 3.375 max in this rifle's mag

Ave velocity at 28 degrees F for 5 rounds 2733
never checked SD or ES as of yet.

I think I have what is called a "fast barrel" in this rifle. The barrel is a bit thin well more like a noodle but it was purchased as a hunting rifle that is to be carried all the time.

I have to say that I am tickled pink with this one, I have bought 2 700's this year ( my first ever two) and both are just great shooters that my limited skills do not give any justice to what so ever. I also have a hard on for H-414 and I am pleased with it in the 220 swift and i think I may have a winner in the 06 too.

Well here is a 5 shot group

An '06 is fine for deer, elk, moose, caribou, mountain goat, dall sheep and bear. My dad shot gazoodles of them (with open sights, no less) in Alaska in the early 1950s with the ammo they had available at that time. Think how much better it is now. But do tell your wife that a bigger gun is always better and you will definitely need a new one this year.

quote:

Originally posted by rootbeer:
An '06 is fine for deer, elk, moose, caribou, mountain goat, dall sheep and bear. My dad shot gazoodles of them (with open sights, no less) in Alaska in the early 1950s with the ammo they had available at that time. Think how much better it is now. But do tell your wife that a bigger gun is always better and you will definitely need a new one this year.

Yup I could not agree with you more I wacked a lot of critters with pretty run of the mill ammo from the time I shot my first deer back when I was a young lad.I have used some premiums and have had good results but nothing that would stand out as superior in any one instance. Put that warhead in the right place and the rest will attend to it's self. I have to admit though I am pretty fussy about accuracy more so than speed and most of my re loads shoot at book or a bit under.

Hell one new rifle! I have designs to get 3 more soon and I have made my picks after much thinking.

This is what my rifle list will compose of when I am done ( might take another year or so )


.220 swift for varmints up to yotes
6mm rem or 6mm AI long range yotes and wolves
25-06 Deer and Caribou
30-06 (nuff said)
and a 338-06 for moose and large black bears.

That would about do it for me it would also allow me to have a back up rifle for big game if my primary had a problem.

We are planning a caribou hunt for 2007 and I would love to use a 25-06 for that hunt but the 06 will be there too way to much cost to take a chance on one gun.

all I have to say is "Hipster, you must be living right"

As to you question about a between cal. for bear...

That might be a justification for the new 325WSM. Hmmmmm

quote:

Originally posted by Hipster:
Well I got to frigging around a wee bit today with some home rollies I whipped up just for fun.

Same rifle specs optics as listed in my first post.

Here is the load and it is pretty mild in this rifle so I know I can get better speed which I think will tighten up the groups.


168 grn Mk
Virgin Win Brass FLR (Flash hole and primer pockets done).
Win LRP
55 grains H-414
Col 3.375 max in this rifle's mag

Ave velocity at 28 degrees F for 5 rounds 2733
never checked SD or ES as of yet.

I think I have what is called a "fast barrel" in this rifle. The barrel is a bit thin well more like a noodle but it was purchased as a hunting rifle that is to be carried all the time.

I have to say that I am tickled pink with this one, I have bought 2 700's this year ( my first ever two) and both are just great shooters that my limited skills do not give any justice to what so ever. I also have a hard on for H-414 and I am pleased with it in the 220 swift and i think I may have a winner in the 06 too.

Well here is a 5 shot group

This group looks pretty decent except for the flyer.
That top group though in my opinion looks more like a shotgun pattern. JMO

quote:

Originally posted by mike_elmer:
Get some more of the factory ammo, but for heavens sake.... don't denie yourself the aggrevation of working a load up for it, too.

It sounds like the rifle is a real keeper. Enjoy!!!

Definately get some more of the factory ammo to use as backup if your handloads get jacked for whatever reason when on a hunt. I always like to work up a load and use handlaods before I use factory, its just a pride thing.

338? Shame on you, you NEED a 375 H&H.

I've been in this same scenerio several times, as someone else said before I pride myself on taking all my animals with my own handloads and this has been the case for 30 years this year, then came along my .338 win Mag Supergrade. This gun shoots Federal Classic 225 grainer factory loads sub MOA all the time. For my hunting rifles I only shoot 3 shot groups and for me this works because I've never needed all of them anyway let alone a 5 shot group. So this .338's best 3 shot group measured .264" center to center! I won't fuss with developing a load for the pride on that one, it really shoots. Then I ran into my .375 H&H mag, light 7.25 pound gun shooting Federal Classic 270 grain bullets with a 1.5-5 power Leupold on it and it prints 3 in a beautiful little triangle of 1" to 1.25" all the time, I'm not fiddling with that gun until I need some hard hammers in it for the African Game.
Good luck and shoot those factory loads, why suffer the brain damage!

[/QUOTE]

This group looks pretty decent except for the flyer.
That top group though in my opinion looks more like a shotgun pattern. JMO[/QUOTE]



Top group is first 3 in the center next 3 without letting the barrel cool show the shot gun effect. Thin barrels great for hunting not so great for serious range work. I know I can get the second group tighter with just a touch more H-414 and adjusting the seating depth untill the sweet spot is discovered 4064 should also give me an accurate Mk load.

In the first group if the first three are the ones in the center then I would say you are ready to go.
If the square where you first three shots are is as small as it looks then I personally wouldnt waste my time trying to get the group any tighter for big game hunting.

I would personally say either group is suitable for hunting conditions, but just knowin that I shot anything with a factory load would disgust me, takes all the fun out of it, plus you can mix and match all the right components and outperform any factory load ever created. But its whatever one prefers thats why we all have opinions.