For those fond of making big bores work on deer, try 55 grs of AA's XMP5744 behind a Hawk 300 gr bullet at 2390 fps. This load prints exactly where the 400 gr factor loads hit. It has recoil that is a dead ringer for a 180 gr 300 Win Mag, delivering 2000 FPE at 300 yards. Trajectory is close to the 303 Brit with 180 gr bullets: sighted zero at 200 yds it id 3 inches high at 100 and 12 in low at 300.

Extreme spread of this load over a chronograph for 10 rounds is plus or minus 12 fps with accuracy = 0.6 MOA.

Thanks! I just ordered reloading stuff for my new .416 and will buy some Hawk bullets next month and may try this out for deer season.
Jason

I am glad to see others are appropriately downloading "elephant guns" for use on North American game. I have downloaded 375 H&H and 458 Win Mag for nearly 25 years. In addition to Accurate XMP-5744; IMR-SR4759 is another extremely good downloading powder. Another thing; when working up a load; the larger diameter, flatter nosed bullets will hit much harder than a 30 caliber or less; so not as much muzzle energy is really needed ( saves meat too ). A friend of mine has a 400 Pondoro ( .410 Grove rather than .416 ) and shoots 41 Magnum pistol bullets alot.

[ 10-20-2003, 17:27: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]

I think the whole concept of "downloading" is an ill-founded concept, and I never download any cartridge for any hunting. There's no need to.

My experience with shooting smallish, deer-size game with big bores (.375 H&H/.458 Win.) in Africa is that the amount of tissue damage is very little different than with traditional, mainstream medium-game cartridges such as the .270 Win. I've also taken many deer here in the U.S. with full-house loads in the .338 Win. Mag. and .375 H&H and again, the results have shown me very clearly that these bigger cartridges aren't exactly going to blow deer all to heck and gone, even when running at full throttle.

Because of that, I see little need to "load-down" any cartridge, including the .416 Remington, for any sort of big game hunting. In fact, for the sake of familiarity and practice, I see considerable merit in hunting with the exact-same loads I'd use in Africa for lion, buffalo, etc.

I'll be taking my .416 Remington to Texas in November for deer and hogs, and I'll be using the same, full-power 400 gr. Swift A-Frame loads I'll use in Tanzania next safari season. The practice will do me good.....

AD

But, Allen, not all of us enjoy getting kicked around a lot, and, besides, it's FUN!! That's why I do this handloading thing.

I was just fooling around yesterday, in fact, with my 416RMag using 45 grains X5744 and 350 RCBS cast lead bullets with gas checks. At 50 yards, they print just a fraction lower than the full house 350 Speer Mag-Tips, at about 500 FPS less velocity. Typical ranges for deer here in SW Pa are under 75 yards, so, it's a perfect match. Haven't tried it yet, and don't know if I really want to lug that 10# 416 over hill/dale and through the brush or not, BUT, I doubt if one of those big ol' lead bullets thru the deer's ribs would do him any good if I choose to.

Another good reduced load, using the 350 Mag Tips, is 50 X5744, for around 2,250 FPS, low recoil and excellent accuracy.

R-WEST

This is exactly what I want to do with my Ruger#1 in 416 Rem. Unfortunately, the gun has such a loooong throat that the 300 gr Hawks cannot be seated even remotely near the rifling and accuracy is horrible with a variety of loads (I have 22 of them left if someone wants to buy them). I wonder..will the 350 gr Mag-Tips even expand on deer??

A 458 Win Mag with a 300 grain Sierra at 2,550 fps will make a mess out of a 130 lb. Alabama Deer on a front shoulder shot. A 375 H&H shooting a 200 grain Sierra at 3,150 on a Coyote re-defines varmint cartridge as well.

[ 10-21-2003, 07:54: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]

I have been experimenting with "light" .458 mag loads for deer.
The main reason was to first, practice with my CZ 550 more regularly in hunting scenarios and Second, to reduce the damage I believed it would inflict on said deer.
That being said I have taken two deer ( I know "more experimentation needed") with the gun, within 50 yards. One was taken with a factory load, Winchester 510 grain soft point and the other was killed with a 405 grain soft point slowed to around 1700 fps.
The factory "Elephant" round produced what looked like the same hole I have seen from my .270. The "reduced" load actually seemed to cause more damage.
Further tests on inanimate objects appears to place the cause on bullet performance. The 510 grain appears to be slower in expanding inside of relatively soft targets (deer as opposed to Buffalo) while the 405 grain seems to really balloon. This follows the logical school of thought in the developement of "Dangerous Game" bullets.
Having said all of this I would make this bold statement, "that when using controlled expansion bullets the target itself will determine the amount of energy that is absorbed"
The bullet will pass through deer and deposit most of it's energy downrange while a buffalo will take it all.

Old and slow,
Of course a Sierra will blow up, unless you use the 300gr. They are soft bullets, always had that reputation..I doubt the 300 gr. Sierra is all that destructive as I have used it on Eland and Elk and it worked fine on these big animals without excessive expansion...

I agree with Allan, the big bores with big bore bullets just kill clean and nice..I have shot a ton of deer size antelope and some deer with most of them...Certainly less destructive than say a 270 or 243...

Then again, you can always use a solid in the 416's and up and eat to the bullet hole...It will kill them very quickly...

The flat nose solids kill game well in the big bores and do no noticable tissue damage..but they let a lot of blood out in a hurry...even in 9.3 or 375....and even if you break the shoulder which is a good idea.

Old and Slow,
I'm talking about a 300 gr. in the 375 not the 458....I didn't so state in the above post. sorry.

The 300gr. 458 bullet is designed for the 45-70 and 45-90 therefore it is virtually a bomb at 458 win velocity...a varmint bullet so to speak..

Mr. Atkinson and Allen Day - You both are very right in using strongly constructed bullets on Deer will not over damange. The point I was trying make was in response to Allen Day's post. I just didn't do a very good job. This was that a 375 Winchester bullet or a Trapdoor 458 bullet in a full house 375 H&H or 458 Win Mag or Lott load will become a varmint bullet and does indicate that downloading does have an appropriate use in these cartridges. I have purposely used the 200 Grain Sierra @ 3,150 on Coyotes and paper to gain gun familiarity. And it is very effective overkill. And the 300 Grain 458 at 2,550 will frappe a hot 2 liter rootbeer into a wonderful froth. Rootbeer is our favorite; next is Double cola. Have not tried the charging rabid bowling ball yet; can't find reasonably priced used balls.

[ 10-22-2003, 09:36: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]

A 350 gr. Speer Mag-Tip will expand on a deer, tried it myself...impact velocity was 2375 fps, no heavy bone was hit...

Ray,

that sierra 300 gr .458 bullet is also a bomb at 45/70 velocites !! I have shot a couple hundred head of game with that bullet and been witness to a couple of hundered more and it is very volatile indeed. I was wondering how volitile it would be at .458 lott speeds

todbartell, thanx for the info. I've got some loaded up already (leftover from Newfy Moose hunt from last year). I'll have to go to the range and freak people out with the 416. Makes people go oooooooooooooooooohhhh....