I love the bullistics of the 35 Whelen. I always wanted one for 150 yard hunting here in the East Coast. But for the life of me, I have never seen one that will get subMOA groups. Is there something inheriently inaccuate about them. I know several people that have 30-06's that will get .7" groups, so why is it so hard for the Whelen? And some people I know with them have custom rifles with krieger barrels and all. I know some will get on here and say, you don't need subMOA groups, but my question is strickly about the performance of the 35Whelen not what you need. Also, was looking thru my "handloader" mag and American riflemans, and they both did test with the Whelen and thier groups also were average 1.8-2" groups. Got me thinking.

My Whelen will go 1 MOA for five shots with it's perferred load , RL 15 under a 250 gr Speer........most any reasonable load will shoot 1.5 moa ......I consider this performance very good hunting accuracy ........and out of a Midway barrel yet . I suspect any accuracy problems pecular to the Whelen cartridge is related to shooting the wrong bullet in the right twist . or the right bullet in the wrong twist ....

One disadvantage I find to the cartridge is a large change in the elevation point of impact as you change bullet weights .

[ 08-26-2002, 21:36: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

Hmmm. That's interesting, as I have found the Whelen to be "easy" to get to an acceptable level of accuracy: under 1.5 for 3 for 75% of loads (I shoot a 1x3 Weaver). It's a bone stock 7600 (except for the trigger).

I did have a hard time with ES, see the thread below. From that experience, I would guess that the Whelen suffers from not enough neck tension. The 3.340 magazine length leaves very little (less than .15 in my case) of the bullet in the neck. I also think that with straight cases, you need more neck tension than with necked cases.

Perhaps, in an effort to increase consistency, crimping or seating the bullet deaper might be worth trying in your case. FWIW, Dutch.

Big Country, You can get sub moa groups with a 35 Whelen. I have shot small groups with everything from 180gr flatnose Speers up through my own swaged 303 gr bullets. I have found that the 35 is not picky about what bullet powder combo it likes, basically if you can get it in the case and a bullet on top it will shoot fairly accurately. I have found accurate loads with 4198 all the way to 4831. 200gr Hornady spire points with Win 760 shot .5 MOA. The load I have used for the last three deer seasons is Accurate 3100 with a Sierra 225gr boattail at about 2100fps, its not hard on the shoulder so I can practice a good bit but the deer don't walk off when they're hit. Cast bullets over 4 or 5 grains of some fast pistol powder make good small game loads also. My rifle is a 1903/A3 Springfield (military trigger etc) with a McGowen barrel. Good Luck, Joe in KY

My 35 whelen is the most accurate rifle I own. It is a remington 700 classic, straight out of the box. It has loads is likes better than others but over all it is very accurate. My favorite load for accuracy is 225 gr ballistic tip over RL12, it will be submoa as long as I do my part. It also shoots 250gr hotcores with BL-C2 very well. I practice a lot with it and I am very confident out to 250+ yds. Great shooting and hunting cartridge for me.

My Ruger Whelen Special Edition is a true sub MOA out of the box with factory Federal Premium TBBC's! The best 3 shot group could be covered with a penny. I stopped right there.

This was with the factory trigger. I just replaced it with a Timney and I am anxious to try it out. It is going to Africa with me on September 19th as my plains game gun. I do reload for it, but have not found a mix that will duplicate my success with the Federals. Not taking any chances, so I'm taking 5 boxes.

This past spring I bought a 35 Whelen on a K98 action, A&B barrel, 4x redfield illuminator. I was planning on changing the scope to a Leupold but I shot some factory 225 gr TBBC and shot the best group of my life (to date) 3 shots less than a dime at 100yds. My 5 shot best is .75 inches with 250 grand slams. I decided to leave it as it is. It does prefer to be clean though.

I have no problem getting 1 MOA or less in my Remington Classic 35 Whelen. Its a stock rifle with the exception of some trigger work.

It pretty much digest everything I put in the case. It does have its favorite loads but the best is with Speer 250 GS, Speer 250 Hot core and Hornady 250's and RL15. It also likes the 225 gr. Barnes X with AA2015BR (the older stuff).

This rifle really starts to group with warm or hotter loads for some reason. As soon as I back off max it will loose accuracy.

Just My .02 worth

BD

BIGCOUNTRY,
I've had a total of three different rifles in the .35 Whelen and all three shot less than an inch. The first was a '03 Springfield converted, The second was a Mauser. The most recent was a Rem. M-700 BDL. These are the results of one days shooting. Load was 57.5 grains of H-Varget, 225 grain Nosler Partition, CCI #200s, in R-P .35 Whelen cases. A five shot group was .579"c/c. Velocity=2575 fps, Extreme Spread=12.9 fps, Standard Deviation=7.2 fps O.A.L.=3.408". I traded this rifle in for a .338WM. I think the .338, with its broader selection of bullet weights is more flexible than the .35 Whelen. Good luck.

I ask why to you need it if your longest range is around 150 even out to 300 yards a 1.5 to 2 in rifle is plenty for big game.Sure it is nice and fun to have rifles that shoot them into one hole put on a true big game rifle it isn't needed.

Well P-Dog, as I said in my original post, this is more of a shooting question, not hunting question. I just don't buy my rifles to hunt with, but to shoot with. I have found that I spend a whole lot more time shooting than actual hunting. I also figured out that I probably enjoy shooting more than gun hunting. And I perfer bow hunting over gun hunting or shooting. See what I saying. So thats the reason for the need for subMOA. I mean none of us really need even 10" groups to fill a freezer. I do that just fine with a bow with 6" groups at 30 yards.

As for the rest, I stand corrected. I just look at all this data in the mags, and people at the range and see 2" groups usually. Bigbob, you have always gave me straightshooting advise that I believe, so I might get one built up later in the fall. Thanks for the posts

bigcountry if you want sub min out of your whelen go for the works like you said high end barrels trued action ect ect. Shoot all the differant brands of powder work up the best load ect. I have 06s that well shoot well under an inch. Varmit rifles that go under .5 an 338wm that groups under3/4 a 300 win mag that is a .5 rifle. Yes it can be done. But your first stated was hunting under 150. I stand by the fact is that with big game rifles it is not need at ranges under 300.
<<<< I have spent many enjoyable hours working up loads and testing them for all kinds of calibers. Just remember that getting a hunting caliber that as no target bullets availble is going to be just a bit harder. I find that if a person has limited amount of time some things just are not worth the effort to do. Some times after shooting rifles that puts most of them in one hole I think that 1.5 in group out of a sporter weight big game rifle well not do then I have to remind myself what it is going to be use for.
<<< Good luck with your quest for sub min 35 whelen.

P-Dog, thats what I have been explaining and needing to know. Do you have a 35Whelen that will shoot subMOA? I have worked up several loads for several rifles to get subMOA groups. But thats still not the question. I am sure most of us have built up loads to be subMOA. What I explained in my first post, is I know people that have built up a 35 Whelen out of premium parts with no luck, and was wanting advise on that. As far as 2" being good enough for big game, I really am not worried about that one way or another. Not really a shooting question, more of a "Big Game" column question.

No 35 whelen but shot a 358 win abit same bullets all it well do is around 1.5. 308 has a better rep for accuracy then 30-06. But then the 358 is a slim barreled sporter that is under 8 lbs on a 98 action with a 1x4 leupold on it. I always thought that if I put a higher power scope for testing might bring the groups down a bit. But then All the bullets for 35 cal are hunting ones. But then what it is used for 1.5 is plenty no need to get rid of a nice rifle just because it well not shoot under an inch in big game rounds.

Thanks for the info. Lets mix it up some more. What about 35 Whelen AI. Is it worth the extra trouble for the improved shoulder if I am getting one built?

BIGCOUNTRY,
I've always thought that since we usually have one month too hunt and eleven to shoot, we should do more shooting than hunting. Thanks for the kind words.
I've never played with the .35 Whelen AI so I really don't know what I'm talking about with this. However, if I wanted more than the standard .35 Whelen, I'd do some looking at the .338 Win. Mag.. Just a thought.

sdgunslinger,

Larger differences in point of impact (vertical) is very common with bigger bores when they have a small case capcity for the bore size, which of course most do.

The 45 calibers are real offenders in this area.

Mike

Gents,
Try the sierra 225 gameking and winchester 748. I routinely shoot 1/2 moa in a 358winnie, in 4 different 558 rifles.
jeffe