Fellas, if the 250 grain cast bullets i have coming are not gas checked and just plain base, can i still use 24 grains of H322 which would bring me to 1692 fps or is this too hot a load for a non gas checked bullet??

Mark
What caliber are we talking about?
I would have no problem shooting plain base cast bullets out of my 45-70 at that velocity. I'd question the wisdom of trying that out of my 375 Whelen.
Jim

Jim, its a .38-55 Thats the load data that came with my lee reloading dies. What do ya think??

Mark,
Strictly from a technical standpoint...yes. They will work. BUT...you may get leading depending on the hardness of you bullets, the smoothness of your bore and the angle of your forcing cone. The only real way to tell is shoot some. I successfully driven unchecked lead bullets in some guns to 1900 fps with no leading. That's the exception though...not the rule. Typically I find that unchecked bullets begin to lead excessively beyond 1400 fps + or -.

........bump

Hey Mark, First off I don't have a 38-55, but I've shot lots of Lead bullets in rifles, pistols and revolvers.

Your concern about Leading is one we all go through. In fact, the more you learn about "Lead" the more the concern goes up. The reason for this is Barrel Leading can be created by MANY things. You can be using the wrong Lubricant, have the Lead too soft, lead too hard, wrong powder, wrong diameter, velocity too slow, velocity too fast, bore condition, etc., and end up with Barrel Leading.

Due to these multiple possibilities, it would be in your best interest to get a few books which deal specifically with Lead Bullets. Lyman, Speer and lots of others offer them.
...

One additional thing you may want to consider is making "Milk Carton" Gas Checks. Here is how to make your "Cutter":
1. Take one of your 38-55 cases and drill out the Primer Pocket so you can slip a "pusher(wire)" through it.
2. Run the Expander portion of the Die into the case mouth, but be very careful not to "Flare" the casemouth.
3. Take your Chamfer Tool and slightly "sharpen" the casemouth.
4. Unfold a milk carton over a piece of wood and hammer the casemouth into the waxed paper carton to cut out Gas Checks.
5. Push them out of the Cutter after every 5 cuts so as to reduce deforming the Gas Checks.
6. Place the Milk Carton Gas Checks between the Powder and Bullet.

This is often enough to prevent Leading due to the Bullet Base melting and blowing onto the Bore. But, if you still see Leading, it could be from ANY of those other things I listed above.

Shooting Lead can be aggravating, but barrels last nearly forever with proper care.

hotcore, I dont shoot cast bullets much any more, but I dont mind learning for the sake of knowing...how can too hard a cast bullet lead to leading in the bore...all other conditions of the bore, cone, powder, ect being the same?.....bob

Mark, that load might work O.K. in a straight case like the .38/55. But, in my .45/70, to use faster loads with plain-base cast bullets, I insert an inverted gas check over the powder before seating the bullet. This gives you a good gas check, which expands around the edge to keep gas from the bullet, it drops away 10 or 20 feet downrange, and you have an undamaged bullet base. I have used 342-grain cast bullets in my .45/70 at up to 2364 FPS loading this way, wihtout any leading. I use LBT Blue bullet lube, and heat-treat the bases of the bullets.

[ 02-28-2003, 21:05: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

22blr.... many times if a bullet is too hard, it will not obturate.. or "swell" to fit the bore. This allows hot gases to blow past the bullet as it travels down the bore, melting the sides of the bullet, smearing it as it goes.
I think the only way to see if the bullets will lead at 1650fps is to shoot them and see. Some hard cast, or quenched plainbased bullets will shoot up to about 2000fps without leading.. some will not. Give em a try.. if they lead, just reduce the velocity some.. use them as plinking loads.

I thought you were supposed to size them to your bore...isnt that why the sizers come in such small increments in dia?...if the bullet is the proper dia for the bore, would there still be any way the harder lead would be detrimental?...thanks....bob

Thanks guys. Its informative discussions like this that keep me coming back to this discussion board. Have a great weekend all!!!

Just for the halibut (as the fishermen say), here's a formula for pre-determing the approximate hardness needed for a given load:

Divide the approximate working pressure of the proposed load (psi or CUP) by 1400. The result is the approximate BHN of the lead bullet.

If you don't have a BHN (lead hardness) tester, just refer to the estimated BHN numbers that your alloy delivers. According to some source material I have, pure lead is BHN 5.0, a 1-20 tin-lead alloy is BHN 8, a 1-16 is BHN 10, common wheelweights 16, linotype or Lyman #2 about 20 and quenched wheelweight bullets about 22. Commercial Laser-Cast bullets from Oregon Trail are about the hardest I've seen at BHN 25.

As an example, a 38 Special (or 45 Colt) load that generates 14,000 psi/CUP would shoot best with a bullet with BHN 10. A maximum 357 load that churns up 35,000 psi would need those Laser-Cast hummers to achieve proper obturation but avoid leading. Clear?