My .270 Winchester is a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle, with a slim 22 inch barrel. I like the rifle a lot, but in the past I've never been able to get the velocities from it that I think I should be able to get -- I wanted 3000 f.p.s. with 150 gr. bullets, but in the past I've had to struggle to reach 2900 with bullets of that weight from this rifle.

I also had a problem of copper fouling in this rifle. So, some time ago I gave it a good cleaning using Kroil and JB Bore Paste. After that I treated the barrel with Midway's moly compound. I also moly coated all my .270 caliber (.277) bullets.

I also switched from IMR and H 4831 powders to RL 22 because of suggestions I read here that RL 22 may sometimes give better results.

My shooting today confirmed that, at least for velocity.

Using the 150 gr. Speer spitzer, moly coated by me, and 59.5 gr. of RL 22, I got velocities of 3039, 3020, and 3038 f.p.s. (Winchester brass, CCI 200 primer, 3.35 inches overall length, crimped using Lee Factory Crimp Die.)

Using the 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip, moly coated by me, and 60.3 gr. of RL 22, I got 3103, 3069, and 3073 f.p.s. (Winchester brass, WLR primer, 3.35 in. overall, crimped using Lee Factory Crimp Die.) This load was also quite accurate, shooting into 1 inch at 100 yards.

These loads were safe in my rifle, but are very hot, and should not be used by anyone else without working up to them.

Those sound like really, really hot loads !!! The most I could ever get out of a .270 with 150 Nosler Ballistic Tips was 2850 fps. You are probably way over SAAMI pressures for that load and should probably be careful.

bowhuntr

Winchester factory loads for my .270 WSM are only rated at 3150 fps..I would back off those loads!

Nosler for .270 Win only lists 2900 fps with a 24 inch barrel which would roughly equate to 2800 fps in a 22" barrel..

Mike

Too hot for my tastes, reload those 5 times with the same loads and tell us how tight your primer pockets are.

Hot Loads, Maybe & Maybe Not.

ouch smoking. To say the least. My 270 weatherby mag does 3245pfs with factory loads. That just sounds like ummm lets just say WOW

Brian

A friend used to brag about his ranch being so big it took him four days to drive his truck around it. Another friend told him: "Yeah I had an old truck like that too."

Maybe your chrony is one that reads on the high side? I had a chrony that always read about 5% higher than real world during the early morning or just at sunset due to reflected light from the bullet. 5% at 3000 is 150 fps. But then again, maybe the molly is the magic dust.

Any way, be careful if your loaded rifle or bullets sit in the sun they may just take a shortcut outta your barrel..

How about a nice 26" s.s. barrel in a 270 improved? You can call it a long mountain rifle and it would safer and saner.

[...]"in the past I've never been able to get the velocities from it that I think I should be able to get."

Stop thinking that, and your problem is solved!
NEEEXT!!!!
["rechamber"]

Man, those are some hot loads. Most people I know have a hard time breaking 3000 with 130 grain bullets in a 22" barreled gun. I'd go to something more powerful if I needed that kind of ballistics.

<<<<<pulled post>>>>>>
i thought this guy was using RL 25

[ 09-21-2003, 17:42: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

jeffeoso:

Re-run your QuickLoad with RE-22. He's not using RE-25. That'll probably paint a different picture.

As for pushing that 150 to 3,000 fps, you're long past the point of diminishing returns there. In other words, the gain in velocity (note, I didn't say "performance") is incremental and negligible when compared to the increasing risk you're incurring.

Good luck.

Sort of look at this way. Driving a 150 gr bullet in a 30-06 at 3000 fps in a 22" barrel is a gift from god. Doing the same with a .277 dia bullet is like parting the red sea. Caution.... I get 2930 fps with 56 gr RL22 and 150 NBT - 24" - and thats it.

I ran the scenario past quickload and it is giving me feedback that makes me think you are quite probably running in the 65,000-70,000 psi range.
Just yesterday I had a friend call that was running a batch of RL22 through his .257 wby and was sticking bolts and blowing primers at 4 grains UNDER max. Turns out he had one of the notorious "bad lots" of RE22. IF you ever switch batches of powder and run into what he did at these loads...........enough said.

I'm not going to comment on the load cited in this thread, after all what do I know about this man's rifle - or risk acceptance level, for that matter. I will point out, though, that I have seen several gun writers (Siefried and Simpson) publishing what they maintained were safe loads at 3000+ fps with a 150 grs NP in a 22" barrel .270 Win with (I believe) 58 grs of RL22.

I have shot that load for quite a few years now. Alas, my trust in loading data in general - and gun writers in particular - suffered badly when I chronoed the load to below 2900 fps in my gun. Rats, and here I thought I was zooming along at 3000...
- mike

I put a new battery in my chrony every time I use it.

If it reads fast now, then it must have been reading slow when I got "only" 2770 from 130 gr. Sierra bullets and 55.2 gr. of IMR 4350? Or when I got "only" 2819 from 55 gr. of IMR 4350 and a 130 gr. Speer boattail? Or when I got "only" 2370 and 2422 from a .375 H&H and 300 gr. Hornady FMJ bullets using 67 gr. of Varget?

No, I think the chrony is correct.

The reason I wanted to get 3000 with 150 gr. bullets in the 270 is that this is the top figure given in the Hornady loading manual (the old version -- I think it was copyrighted in 1972; I got my copy in 1977), and I also saw this figure in a gun magazine some years ago from someone who was using 150 gr. Nosler partitions and H 4831 powder in a .270 Winchester with a 22 inch barrel.

This rifle always seemed slow to me in the past. Changing to moly coating and using RL 22 seems to have made quite a large change in increasing the velocity I can get from it.

The Winchester cases I'm using have been loaded 5 times, and the primer pockets are still tight.

I just came back from shooting this morning at the 200 yard range. I couldn't set up the chrony this time because the terrain at the 200 range I use will not allow the chrony to be set up there -- it's usable only at the 100 yard range. Using the load I described above -- 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip, moly coated by me, 60.3 gr. of RL 22, Winchester case (on its 5th loading), WLR primer, loaded to an overall length of 3.35 inches and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp die, I got one 3-shot 200 yard group that measured 1.72 inches, and a second 3-shot 200 yard group that measured 2.75 inches. Not bad for a lightweight hunting rifle.

I know these loads are hot, but they work in my rifle. They do not produce flattened primers or other evidence of too-high pressures. In fact, the pressure indications I got with lesser amounts of IMR or H 4831, or IMR or H 4350 powders were greater than what I get from this load.

[ 09-17-2003, 21:42: Message edited by: LE270 ]

These loads would be excessive in my .270, but each gun is a law unto itself. My current .300 Win Mag gives me much better velocity than an older version would give and it has a shorter barrel. I don't come close to other peoples' velocity in my .280 w/ any bullet weight. On the hand, I exceed published velocities shooting 250 Rem factory loads out of my Rem 700 .35 Whelen w/ 22" barrel.

I've always thought velocity is a good indicator of pressure (assuming there are no other pressure signs). When I reached mid - high 2900s in my .270s w/ 150s, I always stopped (or was content). Same thing w/ 130s, when I get to low to mid 3100s, I stop. Over 3000, let alone 3100 fps seems awful high out of a 22" barrel based on all the pressure/velocity data I have seen, but then again, none of the data was for moly-coated bullets and I tend to err on the cautious side.

Interestingly enough, I read an article in Shooting Times not too long ago that you can have way over excess pressure w/out seeing pressure signs of any type (even case expansion). Something like 75000+ psi w/ no signs, so even though you don't see them, be careful, especially in hot weather.

Good Shooting,

Lou

I am always amazed at the need for velocity. I have three rifles in 270 Winchester caliber and I have been reloading for the 270 Winchester since 1972. Ain't never got 3000 fps from a 150 grainer...Period. I shoot 130's and 140's and both chronograph at or near the 2900 fps range. The 140's are, of course, a bit less (2700+). The 140's shoot around 2" groups at 300 yards and have taken a goodly number of white-tailed deer. I now shoot cast bullets from my favorite Model 70 at a blistering velocity of 2184 fps and, believe it or not, that slug is accurate (less than M.O.A. at 150 yards) and does the job. Good-luck on your 3000 fps venture...BCB

Lloyd,

Seems to me if you are moly coating your bullets that might add some extra velocity. While another 100fps is not going to give you much more in field performance, only by the several loadings of the same case and testing the fit of primers in the next reloads can you verify if it is safe IN YOUR RIFLE.

Too many guys in here think if you get better results than they do, or think they should, then it must be problems with your chronograph. I grew a little weary of checking out my chronograph, against a few others, because some guy from Lord Knows Where, told me it must be reading hot.

All rifles are different. I could have the one that came off the assembly line right after yours and you get 3,000 fps with a load, and I only get 2800. How far out to the rifling or lands that your bullet is seated will also give different results.

While most of us do not have pressure loading equipment, some people on here think that a little extra powder or another 100fps in a load with slow powder is going to give them 70,000 psi. They have no more basis of proving it in YOUR rifle than I do disproving it.

With the heavier bullets, ( I prefer the Nosler 160 grain, and I don't moly coat, aint worth time and hassle to me), try and see what results you get with IMR 7828 or RL 25 or Retumbo or some of the other newer powders. I have had good luck with H 1000 myself.

As far as braking 3000 fps with a 150grain 30/06 bullet, just two weeks ago, I was testing a load out of one of the manuals in an '06 with a 150 grain bullet. ( I normally use a heavier bullet myself) However as listed in the manual not only did I get over 3050 fps I had two that read 3100+ fps. Before someone from Nowhere USA tells me my chronograph is screwed up, because the books on his shelf have different results, I also chronographed some loads from the same manual in a different caliber and I was at least 150fps SHORT of what their velocities indicated.

It you are happy with the load and feel it is safe, I hope it brings you home some meat on the table for this upcoming season.

Do what you will, but remember that rifles don't give up the ghost gradually. It's a cumulative process of which there can be no hint; and when it finally happens, it's in less than the blink of an eye.

It may happen to you, or it may happen one day down the line when one of your children or grandchildren is using the rifle. They may even be shooting mere factory ammo; but if the rifle has been weakened by past hot loads, the ghost may find a way to escape, anyway. Nothing good can come of that.

Sorry to be an old mother hen about it, but I just hate to see ANYONE get hurt over 100 fps. Paper targets don't care. Game doesn't care. Why should you?

If you continue, I will say that a chronograph is essentially useless in the arena you've entered. You'd best be directly measuring pressure if you still care to sally forth.

I certainly don't mean to be rude, but just because someone can get 3000 fps in one rifle with a 22" barrel, doesn't mean that every similar caliber rifle with a 22" barrel is going to get that same velocity. I gurantee you one thing, there isn't an animal or target in the world that can tell the difference between 2850 and 3000 fps from the recieving end of a .270.

Happened to have data from several manuals entered on a table I did.

For the 150-gr. Hornady or Partition, the highest charge I see is 59.5 gr. of RL-22 (Alliant manual) but none of them go much over 2900 fps and most are using a 24" barrel.

I think I once went as high as 58.5 gr. for 2900 fps but wasn't very comfortable with the bolt lift. With a more recent lot of powder I think I stopped at 56.5.

I can get 3100 fps all the time in my 270 Browning a bolt, but it is 270 wsm. It is also just as unpleasant to shoot as my 300 win mag. Loud as hell. I loaded it down to 3150 with 130 gr Interbond and I now will be able to hunt without muffs on. I also loaded up some 130 at 2975 with 54 gr varget and am happier yet. Know what? The deer will be just as dead with the 2900 fps load and my hearing will last a lot longer. I like the lighter short action gun which is why I got the Wsm. I can also load 'er up if I need to, or down which is where it will be most of the time. That 2975 fps load hits the target 1.5 inches lower at 200 yards than the 3175 fps load. The deer are not going to be able to tell the difference.

Just to reiterate, it's definitely not impossible to blow up a M700. A fella at the range where I shoot accomplished this feat last year and lost his right eye for his trouble.

If I were you, I would take a micrometer capable of reading in .0001 increments, and mike the heads of these cases before and after shooting. If you are getting head expansion, back off.

While every gun is a law unto itself, I've never seen a .270 that would approach what you're getting. My favorite .270 is a pretty "fast" one, and I get about 2900-2950 out of a 24" barrel with those bullets. My other .270 with a 22 inch barrel gives about 2800, and that is with loads that are plenty hot. Is moly coating going to add 200fps at the same pressure? Doubtful.

Just my two cents. If you want a magnum, buy a magnum.

My Hornady manual lists 150 grain .270 Win with 58.7 grains of RL22 as max for their tests.
Their published velocity for that load was 2,900 fps from a 24" tube.

It's not really all that far away from the load listed.

For my money, 2,900 fps = 3,000 fps anyday. I use a blade micrometer and carefully measure the case ahead of the extractor cut. Anything over .0002 growth is unacceptable. Judging primer flatness is a good thing to do but leaves a lot to error.

It's very possible that LE270 is in the safe zone here.

Vapodog:

I will have to differ on this. If you're getting 2900 out of a 24" barrel, that means about 2800 out of a 22" barrel. The difference in pressure between a load that gives 2800 and a load that gives 3000+ out of the same case in a 22" barrel is not small. I would not be surprised if he's running 70,000 psi.

It's possible that the loads are OK, but it would be irresponsible not to mike the heads carefully a few times before deciding everything is hunky-dory. Neither he nor I want to be behind the bolt if this gun decides to give up the ghost.

Le270--I've been using R22 and the 150's for a long time-out of several 22" tubes I get 3000 and feel quite comfy using the load.

When I last barreled my G33/40 I put on a 25" Lilja for giggles-it would run 3100 with the 150's now that will make some people sit up and think. Hmm why do I carry that long barreled heavy mag?

I cut the tube to 23" (it fit the scabbard better that way) and I settled on a load that runs 3000.

I have no worries about using this load-I do buy several pounds at a time of the same lot and do a load check b4 going to a new lot.

I'd say this-from my experience to get a 270 to run 3000 with a 150 is not rocket science, just use R22. I used IMR 4350 for years b4 the advent of R22-I have not looked back since I started using it.

I'd also say this that miking the case is a excellent idea-and one that I feel all should be doing.

Lastly the difference between 2900 and 3000 is quite inconsequential except between our ears.

However, if you feel comfy with the load (as I do mine) then by all means take it to the hill.....

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Caliber 270 Winchester Case length Min: 2.520
Barrel: H&S precision 24" Max: 2.540
Case: Remington Cartridge length Min: 3.065
Primer: CCI 200 Max: 3.340
Bullet Bullet Powder Start Start Start Maximum Maximum Maximum
Make Weight Type Load Velocity Pressure Load Velocity Pressure AOL
Type Grains grains Fps kPsi Grains Fps kPsi inches
Sierra SPBT 130 Magpro 58.5 2919 48.6 65.0 3234 63.2 3.250
Hornady SPFB
Nosler Partition
Sierra SPBT Game King 150 Magpro 55.4 2725 50.9 61.5 3000 63.6 3.250
Hornady SPFB
Nosler Ballistic Tip
WARNING!! ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM OR "START" LOAD

some new data for 270 win off their web site....this was developed in a 24" barrel

MagPro list 3000fps for 150g bullets in 270 cal right on the can of powder. No barrel length listed.

There are, in fact, several long standing 150 gr 270 loads published that reach 3000 fps in both 24 and 26 inch bbls. The best is an Alliat listing in their 1996 manual for a Sierra SBT at 3010 fps using 58.5 grs of R22. This generates only 61,800 psi.

However, the Nosler 150 can only be driven 2845 fps with an additional grain of R22 and a similar pressure...bullet design is very important.

Speer Manual #13 Holds R22 to 54 grs and 2769 fps and goes to IMR 7828 for max 150 gr loads in the 270, extracting 2907 fps from a short 22 inch tube. This data set includes the spitzer you are using, but is probably held back by the 150 gr Grand Slam, which is notorious for driving up pressures.

If you want to be sure that you are safe, work up with IMR 7828 with the Speer bullet, or switch to the Sierra 150 SBT with R22.

Bullet design is a critical determinant of velocity and pressure and one really needs to pay attention to this when going for max loads. For example, Speer #13 lists the 338 Win as max with 200 gr bullets with 76 grs of R19 at 2806 fps, but the 225 Speer SBT goes to 78 grs of R19 for 2944 fps!!! This is exactly what happens in my own 338.

In my 22" BBR I have trouble getting 3000 ft/sec with the 130grs bullets. My max load with a 140gr is 58grs RL 22, and that gets me 2904ft/sec. Seems to me you might be a little on the hot side, but like many said each rifle is an indivudal.

This is insane. If you want to blow yourself up then a pistol is a much better choice. No sense in wasting a perfectly good rifle in the process.

I cant understand why people do this. If 270 mag velocities are what you "wanted" or "felt you should get" then why didnt you get one. Do your brass a favor and load within the pressures your rifle was intended for.

The argument that each rifle is an entity of its own only carries so much weight, I am more convinced by the fact that there are no free lunches in the world of physics.

Granted that as newly developed powders come along the limitations of cartridges will be extended a bit, but we are talking about a cartridge that was designed to produce about 2800 fs with a 150 grn bullet.

Im sorry to be a mother hen as well, but what sort of message is being sent to newcomers with threads like this?

Discretion is the better part of valor.

Wstrnhunter, Ken Waters himself could not have said it better.