Hey everyone, I just joined the forum. Fairly new to reloading and had some questions about Berger's 168vld hunting bullets. I've been reading a lot about jamming and jumping the lands, and not sure which direction to go here. I loaded some rounds with max load of 4831, and backed the bullet .002 off the lands, and shot them off a lead sled at 100yds, with not-so-good results. (3.5" group)
I don't know whether to back off the powder, or back off the lands more, or jam the lands. These bullets, as you know, are not cheap, and the endless possibilities are overwhelming me.
Could someone please maybe point me in the right direction, I'm shooting a 12 yr. old Savage model 110. I would really appreciate some advice, and am looking forward to learning more on this forum. Thanks!

Hi Dan, Welcome to AR.
I shoot a load close to yours using H4831 168gr vld moly coated. I use remington 9-1/2Mag primers and OAL 3.35"
I fireform my cases and only size enough for the case to chamber, try not to set the sholder back any more than you have to.
Check out your rifle make sure the scope is not
moving. I have had my scope move in the mounts and created all kinds of crapy groups. also chek the action screws If there is a shift in the stock that will also cause group problems
AS for loading to the lands these heavy loads need to have a lot of bullet jump to the lands in order for the slow burn powders to produce an even ammount of pressure before the bullet enters the lands.
Dave

You need to try a slower powder for that 7RM 168VLD load. 71.5 of Rtumbo gave me 3020fps and .750 groups. I never, ever, ever, ever jam bullets, especially for hunting loads.

7828SSC, Rl25, or Retumbo is where I'd start.

I have not tried any retumbo in the 7mm. May have to try it for good video check out the vapor trail
savage rifle 168gr vld retumbo load
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWd1YYouuNQ

I am using the BOTW and LRP favorite load - 73gr Retumbo with 168gr Berger. Have had pretty good luck with it so far. I will not jam a hunting load...that's just asking for problems. Working with 0.015 OTL right now....first group at 500yds was 3.35". Not bad for just a B&C reticle. It was stringing vertically though and my ES was a little high. Might back off a half-grain as the ES was lower there during initial testing.

Here's a vid of shooting the group mentioned above...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3QppiKuAy0&sns=em

Alittle more tweekin on that load and you will have it. what are you gettin for velocity just curious.
Dave

Avg'ing right around 3000 fps with Fed 215 primer. 23.6" barrel.

Thank you guys for your help. Now I'm excited to try some more loads. I have a can of retumbo I haven't even opened yet, have to give it a try!

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Harmon:
Thank you guys for your help. Now I'm excited to try some more loads. I have a can of retumbo I haven't even opened yet, have to give it a try!

Dan, keep in mind Berger VLD's can be real finicky with seating depths. I've had better luck, easier to do may be a better way of putting it, getting accurate loads with 162 AMAX than Bergers.

Played around with primers and seating depth today, and got my ES down under 20fps. The magic load today was 73.0 gr Retumbo, Win WLRM primer, 0.012" OTL. 3060 fps out of 23.6" barrel.

Will see if that helps group size at 500 yds tomorrow.

The following web site may be of some help.
http://www.shootersforum.com/h...ger-vld-bullets.html

Bob

I tried 168 vlds in my 308, but I got the same results. As Berger say seating is very important so you need to keep experimenting till you find a "sweet spot" in terms of accuracy. I haven't any luck with VLDs in respect to accuracy(very inconsistent).
Have you thought about Amaxes - I use them in my 7mm rem mag with AR 2213sc and getting great results, 0.3" at 100m - why dont you try them? I

Getting closer... 5 shots less than one inch. Now for some more tweaking..

56 grains IMR 4350
.010 off lands
68gr. berger vld

What kind of velocity are you getting with that IMR 4350 load?

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
What kind of velocity are you getting with that IMR 4350 load?

I don't have a chronograph yet, JGRaider, but according to Berger, it's around 2750 or so

Sounds like an accurate load for sure. What is your goal for this load, even better accuracy or more velocity? What are you gonna do to "tweak" it? Just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
Sounds like an accurate load for sure. What is your goal for this load, even better accuracy or more velocity? What are you gonna do to "tweak" it? Just curious.

My goal at first was a 3/4" consistant group. Now I think I'm getting greedy..

I went up .3 grains of powder yesterday afternoon, and shot 5 shots. 4 of them I could cover up with a nickel, but the first shot was an inch low, and a little left. I don't understand why the first shot was so far off, maybe it was me.

I honestly don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm having fun doing it!

Have you tried your Retumbo yet?

I tried retumbo a lot. I was bound and determined to use it, went through a half a box of bergers with it, for some reason could not get better than inch and a half group. That was with 70 grains. 71 grains opened up a little, and 69 grains was TERRIBLE.

I touched the lands, clear back to .075 off. Seems like .010 off was the best.

I just realized why you probably asked that, I guess 2750 isn't really that fast. You think I should go for more MV?

I don't get too carried away with just velocity. The only way to know is with a chrono, as lots of rifles won't duplicate posted data. I'm not sure what your intentions are......long range targets, big game, or what? Obviously accurate and fast is a good combo. I do know whether it's Retumbo, RL 22, RL25, 7828ssc, Ramshot Magnum, etc......slower burning powders will get you more velocity out of heavier bullets in a 7mag. If you really aren't concerned about velocity, and just want accuracy, then you're doing stellar work already!

I've been hunting blacktail in Western Oregon and Northern California all my life. It's so thick around here, you could get by with an open sight 30-30. The last 7 or 8 years I've been going out of state, (Wyo., Col., Utah,) and been getting into long-range shots hunting Muleys.

That's basically my intentions, long range hunting for mule deer and elk.- for the 7mm anyway.

I've got a frying pan set out on my place at 450 yards. That's the farthest target I've shot at so far. I've been getting into ballistic calculators lately, got Strelock on my phone, and it works really well.

I would love to try some really long shots someday.

You're going to have to chrono that load then. You can't rely on published velocities from any source. You need to see for yourself, then run the ballistic program.

Will do. Thanks for your help JGRaider. I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions later.

You have a c

The 160 AccuBond might work better for you. It's an extremely accurate and reliable bullet.
I took an elk at over 300 yards with it this year. It shoots around 2" at 300 yds. in my rifle with RL-22 at over 3,000 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
The 160 AccuBond might work better for you. It's an extremely accurate and reliable bullet.
I took an elk at over 300 yards with it this year. It shoots around 2" at 300 yds. in my rifle with RL-22 at over 3,000 fps.

I'm definitely going to try the 160's and I would like to try the 162 a-max also.

thanks swampshooter, that sounds like a dream load.

Dan, fwiw, I have been loading 79 grains of WC 860 (comparable to AA 8700) in both mine and my son's 7RMs behind the 162-grain Nosler original Solid Bases, lit with Federal 215s. He shoots a tang safety Ruger 77, and I have a Remington 700. The load will cloverleaf at 100 in both rifles, but I haven't shot it out past 100. Estimated velocity is somewhere around 2900.

Love those .284 160 AB's and RL22.

Dan,

what is the twist ratio of your rifle barrel?

I went the other way......for my go to load in my go to rifle....The wonderful 7mm Rem Mag.

64 grains ( over book ) of Reloader 19, Fed215m, Winchester brass and a Berger 168VLD. At the lands, not into 'em, even fits into the magazine in my rifle.

2990 fps very accurate in my 26" 700.

Killed a bunch of stuff from Gemsbok to feral piggies.

From 50 yards to 650 yards.

Load development ended for that rifle pretty quickly.


.

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
Dan,

what is the twist ratio of your rifle barrel?

1:9&1/4

You need 180 grains not 168 grains, there's the answer to your problem. I was in the same boat as you were 3 year's ago and that's why I had a Krieger barrel with a 1-10 twist rate, because I had 1200 Berger 168 grain VLD hunting bullets that purchase at a estate sale before purchasing the new barrel. If you are confused, call or email Berger and save yourself time, money, gas, frustrations and bullshit.