Charlie,

Maybe we will have to get together and try a strain gauge.

I am not worried about blowing a rifle up, as I work these loads up in increments so I don't blow something up.

Look for pressure signs long before it gets to where it is exploding brass and actions.

Some of the powders, like H1000, I tried working up a load with that and a 220 grain round nose. I got the case full and it still was fine. Chronographed it and velocity was like 2300 fps at most.

I just find stuff like this interesting, from a handloaders point of view but it is impertinent to stress that this is not for some guys to just take and think they have a super velocity hunting load, until it appears to be safe. FOR THOSE READING IT AND THINKING IT, WORK YOUR LOADS UP. WHAT MIGHT WORK FINE IN MY ENFIELD MIGHT PUT YOUR RIFLE " IN FIELD" AND YOU WITH IT.

CHEERS
seafire

Just to confirm (and give an example of) how different rifles experience different pressures with the same ammo....

Once upon a time I bought two magazine rifles by Holland & Holland, chambered for the .275 H&H cartridge. They looked just alike, and were numbered "1" & "2" with nice little gold inlays...I assume to show they were indeed intended as a pair.

With rifle #2, I could use Holland's factory loads and lift/retract the bolt easily with my pinky. With rifle #1, the same factory ammo froze the bolt shut sufficiently tight that I had to tap it open with a wooden "round".

That was enough variance for me! I sold the pair within two years to a gunsmith in British Columbia, as only the #2 gun was adequate to take into the bush. I had too much dinero tied up in them to leave one lying about the library unused.

Alberta Canuck

AlCan!

That is a very good point of reference on how things can be different. I had a Ruger last week blow three primers in a row with a load that was 2 grains below what was listed as max for that load. At the same time, the same load in two other rifles in the same caliber did not effect them at all.

Think we all agree to error on the side of caution. For some guys that means to error WAY OVER on the side of caution.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

If you can reach 2700 fps with reasonable accuracy in the '06 thats good enough for anything your likely to run into in the lower 48. Lots of game has been killed with the 300 Sav, which is less potent then the '06. If you think you need more horsepower{you dont}go to a 300WSM,, 300H&H or 300 Win Mag. Critter hide aint made out of Kevlar and whatever you shoot them with aint going to be good for them. Bullets don't bounce off, and critters seldom die right where they'er hit. Be a hunter not a sniper and get close enough to place you shot in the vitals.

I did some load development with my M70 Classic in 30/06 and 180hr partitions. I used only H4831 as the powder. I srarted with a conservative load from the book and worked up from there. The more powder in the load the better it shot. My final load I had to use a 18" trickle tube to get all thecharge in the case and it still filled it right to the case mouth. There was a lot of compression in that load. But it shot like a match rifle with that load. Now the interesting part is that one load from a early 90's manual listed the load as a max book load while another book showed it 2 grains over max. In this particular rifle I had zero pressure signs, but I would not want to shoot it in a different rifle without working it slowly and checking pressure indicators.

Some 5 years ago Stan Watson (okshooter) published the work he did with the 30/06 and in the section on 180 grainers I recall he pressure tested max loads of around 10-12 different powders. I'm sure H-4831 was included, but don't know if it was SC. I'll have to dig that binder out...

pud

Seafire,
Next time I'm over that way I'll bring a strain gauge and we will see what the pressure is.
If you try the same experiment with a piece of virgin brass (and a string to pull the trigger) you might get a larger expansion just ahead of the extractor groove. My souvenir jug of H-4831 from before the Hodgdon loads got all conservative shows a max load of 60 grains with a 180 grain bullet.
I'm not saying to not do the experiment. I personally think 1917 actions are like a Russian girl I met once; ugly, but strong. Just use a string to pull the trigger. You won't be able to flip off those femi-nazi's as well if you are short a couple fingers on your right hand.
FWIW, a rancher that I know up near Jordan Valley tried to shoot a cow bison with a 1917 Enfield. He didn't realize that the four-wheeler had kicked mud up the barrel. The barrel peeled back like a banana. The action looked ok, but the micrometer doesn't lie. It was bulged out like Rosie O'Donnell after free Twinkie day at K-Mart (maybe that is why that company tanked).
JCN

The thread by M 98 from Oz got me interested in what he was posting on Sam Fadalas article entitled the Three Kings.

I want to point out right off the bat this is not to try and recommend hunting loads to guys. I totally agree with the astute recommendation, if you think you need a 300 Mag, then go out and BUY one! Don't try to make the 30/06 into one.

If anyone has interest in this, then email me.
Those on line know I like to see what the parameters are on some of my rifles high and low. This thought intrigued me so I thought I would try and chronograph some stuff and see what I got.

Well we are having early rains and the clouds blew in and did not give me a reading on my chronograph except error! Dang it, hate when that happens.

My thoughts on this were since the powder was not mentioned the best candidate I have seen in the 30/06 was with H 4831 SC. Ray Atkinson said he did not think one could get enough 4831 into an 06 case to cause too much pressure. Well I proved his point with a 180 grain bullet by putting up to 66.5 grains of H 4831 SC in a Federal Case.
Primer was 210 Federals.

The federal case is thicker than the Winchester or Remington cases, but this is what I loaded. It is some Federal Brass from out of the trash can at my local range so it is expendible and who knows how many times It has been used before if at all.

I measured the case just ahead of the rim grove before I shot it off and it measured 11.81 mms. After I shot it, it measured 11.82 mms in the same spot. I would not be concerned about this, but I also noticed that when i neck resized the case and put a new primer in the case it showed definite signs of being expanded, as the primer went in much looser than the first time. So I would normally put this case in my box of 30/06 cases that I mark for lite duty loads, such as my blue dot loads at 2000 fps etc.

For you gentlemen with access to the pressure equipment, does this info mean anything to you? I apologize that the chronograph did not get the readings. I will try it again later this weekend. I have to go up to Seattle and Spokane on business the rest of the week.

I was also going to try and work up loads to the max in several other powders like RL 22, RL 19, RL 25, H1000, IMR 4831, 4350, 7828, and H 4350 also. Maybe also try H 414/W 760, is there any other powder slower than W 760 in the Winchester line. Afterwards I will post the results.

Test rifle will be a 1917 Enfield with a 26 inch barrel. With this load of 66.5 grains of H 4831 SC I did not notice any increase in recoil at all for those inquiring minds. Test bullet was a Remington Corelokt. 180 grains.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire