My brother, bless his heart, has decided to start shooting 45-70 and wantsd to use a black powder substitute such as Pyrodex. I know that the black substitutes are volume to volume substitution, but where should I start. Be is shooting one of the Italian Sharps replica carbines, of which I have no idea of the strength of the action. My big worry is that due to a childhood accident, he only has one eye, and I don't want to chance a problem.
Thanks in advance.
Judge Sharpe

Somewhat dated I know (March & May of'74), but Ken Waters groups the Sharps-Borchardt replica among the strongest made 45-70s. "Quite frankly, our system of classification is largely an arbitrary one but is at the same time based upon a fairly intimate knowledge of the old rifles, the writer having personally used most of those listed, although not always in .45-70 caliber. The point I wish to make is that any of these rifles, if in good sound and tight condition, can be safely used with smokeless powder .45-70 ammunition in either correctly adjusted handloads, or current low-pressure Winchester and Remington factory loads."
I hope this was helpful.

#1). If your "one eyed" brother does not faithfully use shooting glasses AT ALL TIMES, --not a bad idea, glasses 'at all times' you need to kick his brain until he cannot sit and learns this lesson... And I mean hardened safety glass glasses, not some damned plastic imitation joke. Don't ask how I formed this opinion. Not pretty.

#2). Apart from simple safety...

The old .45/70 is thought of in 3 classes. i). Trapdoor Springfield. Not strong. Black powder pressures only. ii). Medium. Lever actions ... and iii) Plenty strong. Ruger #1 for instance.

[I put together a Siam Mauser many years ago. Don't regret it, but it does KICK!]

It is my guess that the imitation, Italian Sharps is plenty strong, BUT...

a). With black powder or the knock offs there is alot of debris loosed into the breeze. SEE #1). !!! Yes, the smoke has "bits and pieces" in it.

b). The .45/70 case is not too "stout." Loaded "hot" and it will not last like a more modern pressure design case. You will not be able to get 70 grains of anything into it. Original cases had a ballon head, like smashing the end of one of those aluminum cigar tubes into a rim, and from pure copper... relatively pure... So figure out what the case will hold with the bullet you intend and work up from say 10% down, looking for pressure sign. You should not see pressure sign with black powder and modern components. You do and you are way into DANGER...

There is a Reloader #7 powder load in the data; 2200 feet per second with a 300 grain bullet at trapdoor springfield pressures. -!!- You might want to reduce this a trifle for reduced kick...

Old E. Keith wrote of putting a few grains of a smokeless powder, fast, SR 4759 if I recall, in the case before loading the black powder to "blow out" alot of the black powder crud and make cleaning easier. Not a bad idea, but see #1 again, and again, and again, and again, whoever is shooting... luck, happy trails.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeSharpe:
My brother, bless his heart, has decided to start shooting 45-70 and wantsd to use a black powder substitute such as Pyrodex. I know that the black substitutes are volume to volume substitution, but where should I start. Be is shooting one of the Italian Sharps replica carbines, of which I have no idea of the strength of the action. My big worry is that due to a childhood accident, he only has one eye, and I don't want to chance a problem.
Thanks in advance.
Judge Sharpe

I would suggest you check out the forums at the links below, lots of info there that you can rely on from actual BPCR shooters.

http://bpcr.net/index-a.htm

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/

If you are going to use a black powder substitute, rather than smokeless, you might want to try some Hodgdon Triple Seven. I've been using it in a couple of BPRC's. Works very well and cleans up with little effort.

Thsnks to all of you- He does wear shooting glasses, I do not think the best- He wears the "vintage " style glasses due to his re-enacting and Cowboy want to be shooting. I will give him a better pair for Christmas. I can't face another Christmas eye loss.
He thinks he knows a lot about Black Powder, but does not know much abot Black Powder behind a projectile. He finally got rid of the 45-70 trap door springfield wall hanger of mine that he shot from time to time and bought this Sharpe knock off. I am hopeing to teach him the reallity of safe shooting, and it is not to be found in the play acting he has been doing.
47 years old and big brother is still taking care of him.
Thanks again
Judge Sharpe

30 gr IMR4895 405 gr cast.

48 gr is the max trapdoor load, but the 30 gr reduced load may be needed to work up in recoil.