I am trying to work up a load for my Sako AV 30-06 and i am having some trouble. I am loading IMR 4064, hornady interlock 165 BTSP, CCI200, R-P cases. I shot this ladder @ 150 yds
http://i771.photobucket.com/al...emanls2/DSC00136.jpg

Shots 9 & 10 were stacked but high but the best group.
I loaded 5 rounds at 49.0 grains and shot this
http://i771.photobucket.com/al...emanls2/DSC00138.jpg

I loaded 5 rounds at 49.3 grains and shot this
http://i771.photobucket.com/al...emanls2/DSC00141.jpg

wondering why they are all over i loaded 10 more rounds at 49.0 grains and shot this
http://i771.photobucket.com/al...emanls2/DSC00139.jpg

Now i know i don't shoot this bad so i go in and grab my sako 85 in .308 and a box of factory 180 grn core lokts and shoot this @ 150 yds. 3 shot group in center, then 2 offhand shots at 100 and 50 yds just for the heck of it. I pulled the 50.
http://i771.photobucket.com/al...emanls2/DSC00143.jpg
My question is looking at my ladder which ones would you try and why? Second, How do you know if it's the bullet or the powder your gun doesn't like? My other 06's really like 4064 but this thing is worse than all over the place. I didn't have my trap set up at 300 yds and was short on time is the reason for the 150 yd ladder. My barrel was cleaned after each shooting session. When i shot the ladder most of the shots were high. I cannot figure out why on the next 5 shots with 49.0 and 49.3 grains wich are shots 9 and 10 on the ladder shot so low and didn't group at all. I just can't understand this. I checked that everything is tight and it was fine. There was significant time between shooting each target so the barrel wasn't hot. This is driving me crazy.

Nobody has an idea?

Check that stock/action bolts are tight. Recheck scope for tightness.

Tacksmacker

Are you cleaning with Wipe-Out? I have had the best results with it. Other than that if you have already checked tightness on all action and mount screws, I would try a different bullet (my Rem 700 in -06 hates 165's except TSX). If a different bullet doesn't show promise I would suspect a bedding issue. Hope that helps and good luck.

Try changing scopes. roger

I am cleaning with shooters choice copper remover and outers, then lightly oil and dry patch. I've done this for all my rifles. I am going to stop on my way home and buy a box of factory loads and shoot it again to check. The scope is a fairly new Leupold vari-x3 but i have another one i could throw on and try. I have shot 150 sp's out of this same gun and scope that grouped well before. We'll se what happens tonight. It can't get any worse.

It's tough to tell on your original ladder. Is the pic of the target oriented properly where up is at the top? The way you wrote on it tells me that "up" may be the right side of the target pic.

I would shoot the ladder over again but at 300 yards or longer. 150 may not tell you enough.

You may want to shoot 2 or 3 more with different components. At 150 yards if the barrel "likes" the chosen components, the impacts should be much tighter.

I use 4064 and 150 grainers--but a few more grains than you mentioned.

The orientation is correct. I wrote next to all the shots that were high and off the paper and the spots i drew were where they were located left or right. I'm thinking at 300 yards with this load i'll miss completely.

Then check to make sure nothing is wrong with the way the gun is put together and then try it again with different bullets and powders.

If the gun has shot well with a different load in the past, load up some of those and check it. If it does not shoot your previous load well check the crown with a magnifier to make sure it hasn't been dinged.

I'd say your gun doesn't like that particular combinations. More then one gun won't shoot those hornady bullets.

Try some Nosler BT, or some Sierra GameKings and some 4350.

I didn't have time tonight to shoot (honey-do's) but i did pick up some 180 grain sp to try and got some loaded tonight. Tomarrow i will try the 180's as well as some factory 165's and see what happens. I checked the gun over very well tonight including the crown and it all looks ok however i don't have a bore scope yet(it's on the to get list)We'll see what she does. If it doesn't improve i may just have my candidate for the 338-06 after all.

I would start with bullets that have a good reputation for accuracy in your desired weight (165gr). I would then use 2 or 3 powders of the correct burning rate that will give near 100 percent loading density (IMR4350, H4350, RL-19, and my favorite RL-17). When you get the most accurate load from which ever combo you use then start using your favorite bullet and fine tune it.

Happy Shooting
sonnyboy

I am starting to work up some test loads with different components to try in this rifle. I have alot of H4831 that was pretty accurate in another 06 of mine. I'll try a few loads with that and a few different bullets.

It's recommended that you change one component at a time.
I never had any luck with 4831 in a 30-06. Do you have any 4350?

No 4350, but i'm open to buying new stuff!

4350 (both), W760, 4895, and maybe try some RL-17 if you want better velocity.

Your stock is probably touching your barrel and providing a presure point. As the barrel fires it "whips" and may not be coming to rest on the pressure point at exactly the same place.

Free float your barrel and glass bed your action.

Barstooler

Ice, H4831 can provide good accuracy in the 30.06, but it's too slow for the midweight bullets. 4350 and RL19 are much better options for the 165gr bullets, but start with 4350.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
Ice, H4831 can provide good accuracy in the 30.06, but it's too slow for the midweight bullets. 4350 and RL19 are much better options for the 165gr bullets, but start with 4350.

What about 180 grain bullets? does 4831 do ok with the heavier bullets? I can easily slide a dollar bill the full length of the barrel so i don't think it's a pressure point. I'm going to shoot the factory loads and the 180 loads i made up last night today so we'll see after tonight. If that don't help i'm going to swap scopes and try again.

180-200gr is where I would consider H4831 in an 30.06.

IMR 4831 is faster and I have used it in the '06

Lean close 'cause this is know only to a few million people.
Load 57gr of IMR4350 behind a good standard 165gr C&C bullet. Light it off with the standard primer of your choice. If it will not shoot repectable groups from the get go, sell the rifle.
That has been my "test" load for every '06 I've owned. You may do better by tweeking the powder or moving the jump to the lands or find one bullet it likes better than another or even find a powder it perfers BUT you'll only be improving on a starting good group.

I have 2 Win 70's in 30-06 and both shoot well with 54gr of IMR4350 and 180gr Sierra Pro Hunter bullets. In some brass it takes 54.5gr of IMR4350 to get the same velocity as with the Nosler brass I am using now. I have also had good accuracy with IMR4350 and 150gr Hornady Interlocks. I am not a real fan of boat tail bullets unless you are shooting at real long range.

I have an update. I checked my rifle over very well and could find nothing wrong so i went out tonight and shot the 180 grain loads using the exact same components i used with the 165 grain bullets in the first photos. The loads consisted of 43.3 grains of imr 4064- 46.3 grains in 3 shot groups.

the first set turned out like this
http://i771.photobucket.com/al...emanls2/DSC00145.jpg

2nd set like this
http://i771.photobucket.com/al...emanls2/DSC00147.jpg

this target is a 3 shot group of factory 165 grain core lokts
http://i771.photobucket.com/al...emanls2/DSC00148.jpg

The groups are better but surely not there yet. all groups were shot at 150 yards. The factory loads grouped at about 2.25 inches and the only good group with the 180 loads was the first group loaded at 43.3 grains of 4064 which is the book listed starting load.
What did i learn?
1.It's not my gun thats the problem.
2.Just because a 30-06 likes 4064 or a given load don't mean squat for your next 30-06
3.working up a load is sometimes more difficult for some rifles than others.
4. I still have alot to learn
5.I'm never amazed at the amount of great information i get on AR.
6. Shooting this much on weeknights really pisses off the neighbors!
thanks alot guys

Iceman,
Did you say that this rifle shot respectable groups with a previous loading? If so, why are you changing? If you stated what you are hunting or what you intend to use this loading for I missed it. My go-to load in an -06 is 50 gr of IMR 4320 behind any decent 150 or 165gr bullet (Speer, Sierra, Barnes) or IMR4831 with 180's (sorry don't have my load binder near the computer so don't know the charge). There are lots of good powders for the -06 so I would be more concerned with bullets but unless this rifle has suddenly started throwing "patterns", I would bed it.

This rifle has shot well with some speer 150 sp flatbase bullets before loaded with H4831 and that is all i have fired through it since i got it. The two bullets i tried this time were both boattails. The 180's were alot better but i'm going to try the 150's again that shot well when i got it. Other than that it has sat in the safe oiled of course. I was just trying a completely different load(from loadbooks USA for 30-06 Hornady bullets section). I have just never had a sprayed pattern like this before and when i saw it i said hmmm ok what now, lol.

That should tell you something. Try a flat based bullet. Since I rarely shoot anything beyond several hundred yards, I prefer flat based bullets. My first 30-06 had a decided aversion to BTs.

Iceman: There is an old reloading trick in my family for guns that don't shoot well.

Try them with a Speer flat base bullet. The flat base is an inherently more stable design, and speer was always a good goto bullet for the classic designs.

150gr speer flatbases and H4831 usually shoot's good groups in an .06, you just can't get enough H4831 in it to get a respectable velocity.

Either 4350 will usually crank the 150 spear out at a good velocity, with good accuracy, and will kill deer with out any problem. If you plan to hunt Elk, I'd try the 165-180's, but I wouldn't go any heavier. Once you hit the 200's, you loose too much velocity, and they don't like to open up very well.

Thats my next trial. I'm going to get some 4350 and try it with the flat based bullets, Maybe the 150,s and 165's.

You may want to JB your bore after regular cleaning and all the copper appears to be gone as well. After you do this and you already have determined that nothing is physically wrong with the rifle, your ladders will tell you if the components are right.

Carbon build up effects accuracy.

I'm new to doing a ladder so i need some work on that. What is the most important things to look for when shooting a ladder?

+1 on checking the gun over with a fine tooth comb.

What barrel length is your Sako? Assuming 22"

I would also try Rel. 22 which shows very good results with the larger bullets and try some Nosler 180 BT's.

Check your seating depth against your throat. A problem here could skew a good load.

I think that you are stepping up to close to soon. .3 grains should be .5 for the first step in new gun load development. I have a box of 20 perfectly matched brass for load development. The box is divided into 5 - 4 shot groups. Each load is separated by .5 differential. This gives a much broader coverage and usually always yields an optimum group. Once this is established, I will reload this same box again but cover the Optimum load with a .2 grain differential to fine tune the load.

I am assuming your letting the barrel cool several minutes between shots and you fired a couple of spoiler rounds to foul the barrel. I always get a flyer on that first shot out of a freshly cleaned barrel.

I am expecting to shoot a dime group every time I settle in behind the gun. This keeps my mind occupied to make the effort every time. Load development can be boring.

+1 on using it as a candidate for a 338-06.

If you're not sure about your shooting ability or how do shoot the Audette's ladder, you may just want to shoot 100 yard groups at different charge weights.

A lot of things can effect an Audette's ladder at long range. You want to be sure you have absolutely perfect trigger squeezes on every shot.